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| Traditional Spanish guitar construction http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52812 |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
For those who aren't into fancy tools and jigs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biWk-QLWY7U |
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| Author: | jshelton [ Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
My wife and I laughed out loud at this "artisan". |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
jshelton wrote: My wife and I laughed out loud at this "artisan". Why? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
At the price point these guitars sell at (+/- $500) I don't expect to see John Williams playing one any time soon. They don't get stellar reviews. It seems to be a low volume "factory" guitar. I've never seen one and can't comment on their quality. For someone who wants to build - a guitar - the simplicity of the method might recommend itself. Simple hand tools could be substituted for the few machine processes he used (his technique on the jointer scared me!). |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
I really liked it! About as basic as it gets. Obviously, there seemed to be no effort to work on the sound. He never tapped anything even once! I've caught myself tapping even forms, listening to the relationships. Tap tune the bracing, use a digital caliper, or at least a thin rule for marking fret locations, and the sound quality should at least be more consistent. I cringed watching him smear dark fill on the belly. It's a factory setting, so he is good at what he does. I've never had the guts to carve a neck heel after gluing it on. He made it look simple. I still wouldn't try it on a violin, the radius is so much smaller. Thanks for sharing the video Clay. |
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| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
I/ve watched it 3 times . , They make a simple factory guitar geared to be sold at a price point.. Having run my own music store in LA in the 90/s . I saw that many can only afford x amounts of $$ for a violin or guitar.. What I liked , is the combo of hand skills an power tools to make their product. They used a rope /tape to glue the veneers of purfling an binding . and a large bandsaw to half the neck with a ebony centre piece . No jigs to cut the scarf joint on the neck just free hand |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Obviously very skilled at woodworking. He glued on the bridge plate by eye and the fanning of the braces with no reference lines (I think). so consistency is not his goal. His drawknife is very sharp but has no handles. I am glad I build steel string guitars and don't have to shape a neck or a head plate with the rest of the instrument hanging off the end. What makes everyone think it is a factory setting? He did the entire instrument himself (we never saw the sides getting bent or the plates being thinned). Maybe the building is a co-op withe several individual builders. I didnt search the web for him. Ed |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Ruby50 wrote: What makes everyone think it is a factory setting? He did the entire instrument himself (we never saw the sides getting bent or the plates being thinned). Maybe the building is a co-op withe several individual builders. I didnt search the web for him. Ed He seemed to have templates/jigs for things, The binding markers were preset. The " factory" company rosette? That one did seem to be a special, but not a one off, for a customer. It was done in the same manner as the others. The plates and sides are probably all thinned close to size, and are stocked on shelves, and picked for future use. You could do the same, and maybe even leave them a little thicker, and humidity cycle them to increase stability. So I don't think that he was making something special in the sense that we would think of special. He was just building the regular model, from start to finish by himself. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Can Anyone hazard a guess on what kind of glue he is using? It almost seems like a paste - after he brushes it on it stays in place and doesn't run like titebond ot HHG will. It looks like it simplifies some processes (gluing the back to rims, gluing the bindings). |
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| Author: | jshelton [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Tim Mullin wrote: jshelton wrote: My wife and I laughed out loud at this "artisan". Why? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Judging by the thickness of the top and the height of the fan braces the guitar will be what we call a "log". It will have no volume and sound similar to a tin can. It's a cheap imitation of a real guitar made with some kind of white glue. At least the guy knows how to sharpen a tool, if he does the sharpening. |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Clay S. wrote: Can Anyone hazard a guess on what kind of glue he is using? It almost seems like a paste - after he brushes it on it stays in place and doesn't run like titebond ot HHG will. It looks like it simplifies some processes (gluing the back to rims, gluing the bindings). and talk about open time! |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Watching a couple of those freehand operation on the jointer made my toes curl! What is that instrument to the left at about 48:00? |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
I enjoyed watching that one. He sure likes watches. I was surprised how many hand tools he used in a small production setting, the tasks are not set up for an unskilled operator. I really liked the two handed carving knife he was using on the heel. I've got a hock blade that needs a home, I think I'll make one. His use of the jointer freaked me out a bit too. When he got to the fretboard I just knew he would level the board with the jointer, and he did! |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Quote: Judging by the thickness of the top and the height of the fan braces the guitar will be what we call a "log". It will have no volume and sound similar to a tin can. It's a cheap imitation of a real guitar made with some kind of white glue. Francisco Brothers Guitars have gotten favorable reviews in publications like Guitar Magazine, Music Radar, and The Fretboard forum. They received rave reviews at a recent Frankfurt Guitar Show. It's a budget guitar, but doesn't rate the vitriol Mr. Shelton is spewing. |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
The dog looked worried. After watching him trim the headstock scarf freehand with his hands directly above the cutterhead on that giant jointer and use a spokeshave with no handles, I think the dog has good reason to be concerned |
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| Author: | jshelton [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Chris Pile wrote: Quote: Judging by the thickness of the top and the height of the fan braces the guitar will be what we call a "log". It will have no volume and sound similar to a tin can. It's a cheap imitation of a real guitar made with some kind of white glue. Francisco Brothers Guitars have gotten favorable reviews in publications like Guitar Magazine, Music Radar, and The Fretboard forum. They received rave reviews at a recent Frankfurt Guitar Show. It's a budget guitar, but doesn't rate the vitriol Mr. Shelton is spewing. Sorry if I offended you. That was not my intent, to me being a luthier means more than just throwing pieces of wood together. That guitar will sound terrible. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Although he went through the process step by step, if you watch closely you will notice he worked on a few different guitars. I saw a couple of other people in the finish room and the number of guitars in there leads me to believe it is a small factory similar to the "boutique" guitar shops (without quite the same degree of refinement - smearing brown filler on the bindings in places I'm sure was to fill a few gaps). I think the video was made to demonstrate the traditional method of Spanish guitar construction. A few of the steps were skipped - but they did show pipe bending the sides @14:38. They may have used their best craftsman who can build a guitar start to finish. How much they use those methods on a daily basis? (they may have a thickness sander around the corner) Raimundo Amador is a blues player, so that may be an electric bass or guitar on the left@ 48:00. The guitars have gotten mixed reviews on some of the forums. Whether people expected more for their money or if the company has a somewhat "uneven" production, who knows? I found a video of someone playing a Bros guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP-YnOmPaqo |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
As far as voicing tops and such, who knows. It was fairly obvious that they did not show all of the steps in the video. What is more interesting to me are the nuggets that I can take away from watching their process that might help me with my process such as the two handed carving knife I mentioned earlier - certainly not his jointer techniques 
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Japan Woodworker used to carry a knife made in Alaska? with dimples. A couple were bent carvers, but there was a straight, or slightly bent two handed one, I can't find it now. Maybe it wasn't as big as that one though. Most knives are puny compared to the one this guy is using. Just for whittling, not forming. Even the blades are short. Lots of great ideas on that video. |
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| Author: | Ernie Kleinman [ Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
FWIW . I repurposed a sloyd swedish laminated carving knife, purchased at woodcraft it has a doublebevel and is straight up . I didnt care for the small birch handle it comes with. Made my own from the river birch in our yard . Handle is 8in long. What I like, is with the long handle , it can carve in some very tight areas of the cl gtr neck . I believe Bogdanovich uses a similiar longer sloyd knife to carve his necks except that blade is abt 5 in long . or longer Mine is abt 2.5in long. I find the longer blade too awkward for tight areas of the neck. |
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| Author: | windsurfer [ Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
The two handed carving knife is similar to the Japanese spear plane (yari-kanna). Wider versions are used for surfacing and narrow ones for shaping. The iron on the one he is using to shape the heel appears to be western style, not Japanese. Very useful tools. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
windsurfer wrote: The two handed carving knife is similar to the Japanese spear plane (yari-kanna). Wider versions are used for surfacing and narrow ones for shaping. The iron on the one he is using to shape the heel appears to be western style, not Japanese. Very useful tools. Thanks for that name, I will look at the Japanese tools - maybe I can spoil myself! |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
My 2 cents I like both the pace of his work and how he works. More specifically he approaches tasks from what appears to be a production perspective not wasting motions, effort or time. His designs are simple and unique as some individually made objects may be making them desirable to some. Not sure what his market that he proactively targets is but my hunch is he's paying the bills and hopefully then some. Making a go at Lutherie from a financial viewpoint is not easy. Good comment too from windsurfer, we should always be keen to think AND do safety. Some things don't grow back..... |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
I only thumbed my way through it but as far as I can tell that's how I made the first ten classical guitars I ever built. I use a bolt on neck now but still. I'm sure what ever he's doing works well for him and his customers. I agree the bracing looks a tad stiff but maybe the tops are light. IDK but I'm sure if it was a crappy sounding guitar he'd modify it and or no one would be buying them. Tap tuning is witchcraft anyway. Factories tend to build on spec and that's probably what he's doing. At the same time he is still using old world hand tools and crafting an instrument by hand. Seems legit to me. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Traditional Spanish guitar construction |
Beautiful. Thank you, Clay. |
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