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Bridge wood
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Author:  Duct Tape [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:21 am ]
Post subject:  Bridge wood
I plan to use Ebony or a dark substitute on two of the three short scale OOO’s I’m building. There are plenty of comments on web sites and in some books about decreasing bridge weight, and a few about cracking etc. I prefer the bridge to look like wood, with some variegation, and match the fretboard and headplate, which will likely be Ebony.

I have a Rocklite Sundari fretboard but not the Ebony one. I do have a couple of African Blackwood ones on the way but haven’t seen them yet. If other woods are better options, what are good staining methods?

Thx. Jon
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I would just mention Macassar Ebony as a bridge wood.
Often striped and can be lighter than other ebonies.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I'd be looking at Macassar as well.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I like Katalox for a hard dark wood. It looks good, machines nice. It is pretty cheap, and easy to find. I pore fill with CA, and it shines up nice. No need to stain, even if you could. I had a piece of "Royal Ebony" really Katalox with light and dark wood. I used both sides as guitar/cello fingerboards, nuts, and violin/cello pegs. The light wood had less pores but was still hard enough for nuts, fingerboards, pegs.
Author:  Kbore [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
My A. Blackwood bridge (Martin style) weighs 45gm...... even after removing more wood from the tail-block-side radius. Thats too heavy by many accounts.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I have some beautiful old Brazilian blanks

No need to fill pores to make them look like ebony or plastic they
are lite in weight also
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I like Brazilian too.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
A. blackwood is among the densest I've measured: even 'dry' it would sink in water. Macassar ebony is not as dense as the blacker Indian or African stuff; more like a rosewood, iirc. I think the extra weight helps to control 'wolf' notes with scallop braced Dreads, but on a 000 it's less of an issue. If you're looking for other dense woods, then Morado/Pau Ferro is one.
Author:  Duct Tape [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
So perhaps a quest for lighter weight bridge material may not be as necessary as some authors propose?
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I’ve stained EIR with leather dye quite a few times and to the untrained eye it can pass for ebony.

The bridge is just part of the system. If your system is unintentional, then bridge weight probably isn’t going to mean much. If it is, then bridge weight becomes a tool and part of the plan…
Author:  Duct Tape [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
meddlingfool wrote:
I’ve stained EIR with leather dye quite a few times and to the untrained eye it can pass for ebony.

The bridge is just part of the system. If your system is unintentional, then bridge weight probably isn’t going to mean much. If it is, then bridge weight becomes a tool and part of the plan…


Thanks. Not sure what you mean by unintentional. My only intent is to somehow stop making a mistake every day, and then the learning opportunity of figuring out how to fix it.

Cutting binding channels and truss rods on the docket! :)
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
Still have a lot of African Blackwood pieces from way back. Absolutely love the stuff for bridges, fretboards and bits and pieces like trussrod covers and heel caps. It's a bear to work with and carve but it's a use it while it's still available wood.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I just mean if the bridge weight isn’t chosen for a specific result, as part of an intentional plan, it probably doesn't matter. And if you’re just learning, it probably doesn't matter for you…yet. Though I would stay away from a 45g bridge.

You gotta make a mistake every day until you’ve made all of them, lol…
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
meddlingfool wrote:
"You gotta make a mistake every day until you’ve made all of them, lol…"

Dante said that the closer a thing is to perfection, the more it feels of pleasure or pain. Mistakes that don't matter much when you're a beginner can be major gaffes later. As you get better you'll find that there are still plenty of mistakes you can make; they just won't be the same ones. You'll never make them all.

Apprentices make mistakes and don't know it. Journeymen make mistakes and hide them. Masters make mistakes, but they're part of their style. I'd like to get to the point of being as good as Stradivari's mistakes.
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I have had good luck with "B grade" African blackwood - slightly less dense than A grade and a bit cheaper (although the prices have gone up some since I bought it.). I usually do pyramid bridges, but have done a few belly bridges also.
The weight of the bridge will affect the sound of the guitar - sometimes for the better. A short scale triple O should have a lower tension than a long scale for the same tuning, and triple O's are usually finger style guitars (with lighter gage strings?) so a traditional 1"X6" bridge could work fine which should allow the bridge to be of a reasonable weight.
B grade African blackwood looks a little brown but turns jet black when a little mineral oil is applied.
A possible source:
https://www.rarewoodsusa.com/product/bl ... s-1-5x12-2

Disclaimer: I have not dealt with that seller and have no financial interest with them - just googled them to see what might be available on the net.
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Mar 30, 2024 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
I didn't read any of the other posts I don't have time today but bridge weight should be a function of the specific instrument not some magical spec that if you drink the kool aid you will reach tonal nirvana.

More specifically for the very same reason that changing bridge pins can create the illusion that the pins imparted some tonal change when what has really happened is the change in mass over the sweet spot of a guitar top bridge weight can be more or less optimal depending on top thickness, wood stiffness, your bracing, bridge plate thickness AND shape, how well the box actually amplifies vibration, humidity..., pins, strings and player attack. I'm sure there are other factors too.

More specifically an over built instrument may benefit from a 45 gram bridge.... (it may not as well....) and a very lightly built instrument like an 1867 Martin needs and benefits from a sub 20 gram bridge.

Wood wise African Blackwood is an excellent ebony substitute and rings better in my experience. I'm really a fan of BRW bridges though for a plethora of reasons such as tradition, tone, suitability of the wood for Lutherie and of course it's beautiful.
Author:  Mark Mc [ Sat Mar 30, 2024 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
We need a bridge to be very stiff, but the stiffest timbers also tend to be the heaviest. A successful formula for achieving a lighter bridge is to use a less dense timber and to stiffen it by making a timber and carbon fiber sandwich. This allows you to get something as stiff as ebony or African Blackwood but with much less weight. Trevor Gore and Gerard Gilet’s set of books provide instructions and lots of data about how it performs compared to traditional bridge timbers.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
Mark Mc wrote:
We need a bridge to be very stiff, but the stiffest timbers also tend to be the heaviest. A successful formula for achieving a lighter bridge is to use a less dense timber and to stiffen it by making a timber and carbon fiber sandwich. This allows you to get something as stiff as ebony or African Blackwood but with much less weight. Trevor Gore and Gerard Gilet’s set of books provide instructions and lots of data about how it performs compared to traditional bridge timbers.


Mark I would disagree that a bridge needs to be very stiff. I think that is a function of how the top is braced and a number of other things.

A pyramid bridge is an excellent example of a bridge being effectively scalloped at the wings to permit some flex as the guitar top moves and pumps.

Sure a bridge is one of the most important braces on a guitar but we do also craft braces to have some flex as they need to and where they need to and bridges are no different. Only about 2,500,000 guitars are built a year and not even a fraction of a fraction of these employ CF or jump through hoops to make an uber stiff bridge.

What you are citing is a different approach to how to build a guitar of which I am not commenting on. But I am defending how guitars have been built for all of time and why. Tradition is important in Lutherie and remains one of the best North Stars that anyone could subscribe to and I'm going to defend it as such.

Not dissing innovation if you want to call any different design approach that I am simply pointing out that the absolutes of one design do not necessarily translate to a different design. Stiff bridges per Gore, sure for a Gore type instrument but not necessary to the same degree for a traditional design.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
Just made some meatballs for later today... and was thinking.

I'm also not a fan of CF laminated in bridges. Bridges should be built with the idea that some fool is going to leave the guitar in a black car in Nashville Tennessee for a week in the summer after they were put in jail for being drunk and disorderly. That actually happened to one of mine :) So the bridge lifted and this means that it needed to be reglued. I was not the drunk by the way one of my Heshtone clients likes his scotch.

In the bridge reglue process the bridge is removed with heat (the vast majority of time there are exceptions where cold, shock removal works great). So the heat is required to get the glue joint to the top to release. If the bridge was laminated with a glue that also released in the same range give or take maybe 100 degrees you risk delaminating the bridge and that makes this an unserviceable approach to bridge design.

Do classical guitar bridges lift? You bet and that's why professional luthiers joke that the trade/brand name Cordoba means bridge reglue in Spanish....

Anyway to be clear I am not dissing Gore's designs or information but I don't agree that you can take this and that from his approach and mix and match it with other approaches and have decent outcomes. We don't know and won't until lots of time passes.

We do know that an 1867 Martin built as it was and that is still singing pretty every day is likely an approach that can, at least part of the time stand the test of time and that drunk in Nashville... ;)

Anyway an uber stiff bridge design on a Gore built or braced instrument may be ideal (or not) I don't know. But you put that same bridge on an 1867 Martin and you may be very, very sorry...
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bridge wood
Bridge stiffness and mass, along with the length and width, are factors in determining the sound, but it's only one set of variables in a very complex equation. Other aspects of the build will have similar effects, and can be traded off. For example, a heavy bridge can help to avoid 'wolf' notes and improve sustain on a scallop braced top, but on a top with straight or tapered bracing the weight may not be necessary, and can hurt the treble response. If you don't care where you end up any road will do, but if you're looking for a particular sound it helps to understand where that comes from, and make choices that facilitate it. A lot of little 'nudges' in the right direction often work better than one extreme change, since small changes are unlikely to throw the balance off too far, both structurally and acoustically.
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