Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:35 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:11 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
 does anyone know how luthiers bent their sides in the days before electricity and bottled propane gas????  Jody


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:23 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:36 am
Posts: 114
Location: United States
First name: kurt
Last Name: thomas
City: colden
State: ny
Zip/Postal Code: 14033
Status: Amateur

Jody,


I know you live in Newburgh but power and natural gas should be out your way this year, hang in there!


_________________
_____________________________

Kurt Thomas

"There's a first time for everything even if you do it by mistake."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:32 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:36 am
Posts: 114
Location: United States
First name: kurt
Last Name: thomas
City: colden
State: ny
Zip/Postal Code: 14033
Status: Amateur

OK, seriously I have seen someone use a pipe filled with charcoal, I think it may have been on Robbie O'brien's DVD on Steel String Construction, if he can do it with Kingsford I'm sure the old timers could have used hot coals or coal perhaps.


What's up with the question, are you thinking of trying something along this line?


_________________
_____________________________

Kurt Thomas

"There's a first time for everything even if you do it by mistake."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:58 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 2060
Hot pipes and steam have never been hard to come by. You could probably bend fine around a fireplace chimney if it were stiff enough. I know some old Flemish harpsichords have the inside edges of the bent side charred to a coal, and were essentially thrown in to a fire to heat them. My mother-in-law's house is surrounded by Amish property, and they bend some pretty thick oak for chair backs by steaming them in a chamber before pressing them in to form, which is how a friend of mine still bends his harpsichord sides. There's oodles of ways to apply heat that aren't really that different, we just use a more convenient power supply now.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:00 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
   sorry I missed your post  Kurt , I was in the outhouse !  LOL, actualy I will probably try the hot pipe and propane torch ...but I was curious as to how they did it , and I might try it.... Jody


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:03 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
  Thanks   David ,,, Jody


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:08 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
   HMMMMMM    I have a wood stove insert going in my living room right now... no stove pipe   but I wonder.......the top is hot enough to simmer water ( hotter if I stoke it) .........hmmmmmmm   lets see..... maybe if I.........


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:20 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 590
Location: United States
First name: Michael
Last Name: Shaw
City: Phila
State: PA
Zip/Postal Code: 19125
Country: United States
They boiled the sides and then bent them in forms.

_________________
Guitars, guitars and more guitars.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:23 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:36 am
Posts: 114
Location: United States
First name: kurt
Last Name: thomas
City: colden
State: ny
Zip/Postal Code: 14033
Status: Amateur

Hey Jody,


Did'nt Frank work at Martin, he would probably remember.


_________________
_____________________________

Kurt Thomas

"There's a first time for everything even if you do it by mistake."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:35 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
he did  . but i realy hate pestering him... I saw him  this weekend....he ( very reluctantly) sanded a back for me ,it would have been nice  to hang out in the shop again, but he was having a guitar workshop.. so he was busy ... jody


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:55 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:08 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: Denver, Colorado
[QUOTE=KThomas]

OK, seriously I have seen someone use a pipe filled
with charcoal, I think it may have been on Robbie O'brien's DVD on Steel
String Construction, if he can do it with Kingsford I'm sure the old timers
could have used hot coals or coal perhaps.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Robbie O'Brien has bent a lot of sides that way. Maybe he will chime
in here. Not something you want to do indoors!


_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:10 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Even Irving Sloane boiled the sides and bent them on a form.  He wasn't that long ago.  Truth is, if you were pretty good at it, you could heat an iron pipe in a fire, take it out and bend a side before reheating, but charcoal or coals from a fire would work fine.  

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:48 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
 boiling the sides  sounds like too much moisture, in the wood, to deal with...if I can figure a way to " fixturize"  LOL   ( is that a word?)  my wood stove I will try it , I already have sides bent  for my first solo build .. but i want to try  a hybrid, with  some cypris I have ... and of course i have many mnay more guitars to build ..... Jody


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:15 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 590
Location: United States
First name: Michael
Last Name: Shaw
City: Phila
State: PA
Zip/Postal Code: 19125
Country: United States
You ask how they did it in the old days. This technique go's back hundreds of years maybe even thousand's. This technique was used in regular woodworking too. Irving Sloane was a master and I don't think his instruments ever suffered with this technique. You should pick up all his books they are very interesting...Mike

_________________
Guitars, guitars and more guitars.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:52 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:29 am
Posts: 960
Location: Northern Ireland
First name: Martin
Last Name: Edwards
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I read somewhere that Stradivarius used the chimney of his stove

_________________
My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:00 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:21 am
Posts: 97
Location: Australia
I read a blog somewhere once from a guy who build using hand tools only.
He bent his sides on an old violin maker's spirit burner.

Claire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:06 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
    thanks guys , Mike I am not saying sloane's technique is a bad one, I just see, in my situation , I dont  want to  need to allow the sides to sit for a long period of drying time, plus if I clamped them into a form,saturated ,with the materials available today for forms, I wonder how long the forms would last  . ... its just me ...I see a huge adantage in spritzing the wood and bending on  some type of iron... thanks Jody


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:40 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:51 am
Posts: 3786
Location: Canada
In a GAL issue years ago there was an article by a guy who trained in France or Italy to become a violin maker ... part of the final exam was to bend a set of sides on a pipe/bar that had been heated in the fire only once, so you had to be quick, and good - no breaking allowed, or you failed !!!

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:48 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Exactly what I was talking about.  Once it's hot, it'll hold the heat if the mass is sufficient.  My iron that I made, once heated to 350 or so, takes nearly an hour to go below 250*.  That's almost long enough for, even, me to bend a side.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:12 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:48 am
Posts: 2094
I bend my sides using an old North Sea oil pipe tapped into the upper mantle of Gamkonora volcano on Halmahera island.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:34 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 9191
Location: United States
First name: Waddy
Last Name: Thomson
City: Charlotte
State: NC
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Organic Side Bending, Sam? 

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:39 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 am
Posts: 1016
Location: United States
 Sam .. that  might work for a "jumbo" guitar but......... LOL  Jody


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com