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 Post subject: new member - sound clip
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm
Posts: 104
hi,
I am doing my first build, with a friends help...
(he has built a few very nice guitars so far)

I come up with a unique design concept..
had the 1st prototype built..
and my idea worked, but the prototype was overbuilt, and needs some
changes to really demonstate the idea,
thus I am going to attempt to make prototype #2 myself.

here is a sound sample, hope it works..

the first protype recorded extremely well..
my hopes are high for the 2nd.
(keep in mind the recording is of proto 1 that is very heavy, slapped together test guitar)
and it records as if it is a fine delicate guitar) - IMO


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
I don't see the link to the clip. What is unique about your design? Photos would be nice :D


That said; it would be unfair to you and other new builders with out saying that designing, changing and experimenting with unproven plans, designs and concepts is a good way to not get a fundamental base under you. If you build a few builds to proven designs first study how and why they are successful then when it come time to experiment you will have far more successes than flops. But

I don't mean that as a put-down in any way! It is just wisdom to be shared. The road of lutherie is lined with thousands that were successful the first time out the gate but could not pull it off repeatedly because they jumped form step 1 to step 500 and did not build a foundation under them self to support such towering optimism.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm
Posts: 104
I hear ya,

but i gotta say, that the trouble with learning the road that is well traveled,
you might be swayed from other paths.

I understand the typical luthier response to new ideas,
and lets face it, its a group that is basically building 50year old plus designs..

im not suprized when people think its crazy to try something completely different,
and i understand you comment was to build some normal first..

thanks for the input,,


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Actually the comments were intended as much if not more for other newbie readers as it was for you. it is to late to save your soul!! laughing6-hehe ( said with humor not sarcasm) :D


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:21 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm
Posts: 104
gotcha...

also keep in mind, most inventors are not too interested in taking the
paved road.. no matter how many great people have taken it,

an inventor may have a different destination in mind..

also, the design just came to me, i did not search it out,
so I am not going to control it, and try to make it something
to match my idea of a guitar as programmed into me...

I'm simply trying to build the idea that came to me.
(not the one that came to mr. martin, or whoever else..)

its more about the manifestation of that idea than the building of
a guitar to top notch levels.

(keep in mind, I totally respect current and historic designs, and those
who can build them, especially to the standards I see on this forum..)
its just not where im heading with this project...

my sound clip was too big to post, I will try to chop it a bit and repost later..

:-)
p.s. I got the humor part, tee hee


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Dalester wrote:
gotcha...

also keep in mind, most inventors are not too interested in taking the
paved road.. no matter how many great people have taken it,

an inventor may have a different destination in mind..

also, the design just came to me, i did not search it out,
so I am not going to control it, and try to make it something
to match my idea of a guitar as programmed into me...

I'm simply trying to build the idea that came to me.
(not the one that came to mr. martin, or whoever else..)

its more about the manifestation of that idea than the building of
a guitar to top notch levels.

(keep in mind, I totally respect current and historic designs, and those
who can build them, especially to the standards I see on this forum..)
its just not where im heading with this project...

my sound clip was too big to post, I will try to chop it a bit and repost later..

:-)
p.s. I got the humor part, tee hee


Ok I do and will respect you decision. But I have to disagree vehemently with your assumptions.

Most, in fact the vast majority of successful inventors have a firm grasp of the fundamentals of design in the discipline they are working. It is one in hundreds of thousands that successfully design to a new product or concept with out an extensive knowledge base and or education of the discipline or craft.

I had intended to let this pass with just my humors remark but found your last reply, (in terms of a craft orientated forum that is used to help educate new builders) to useful only in showing a mind set that points the wrong direction and attitude to take if the intention is to be a skillful craftsman.

Here again I am not knocking you at all!!!!! I am pointing out that what we express in any post can and will be consumed by those with aspirations to work in this craft skillfully.

I wish you the best of luck with your design concept what ever it may be as you have not really said what it is you are designing and prototyping.

If you should find you need some help, understanding or definition wit anything, Let us know! There is a wealth of experience here and after all that is what we do best around here.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:15 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm
Posts: 104
hey, I really like your last post.

and I completely agree, the path I am choosing
(to build a new design as my first) is not the best way
to become a skilled builder. it is the fasted and "purest" way to get my
original idea built without influence of current designs and ideas taking over.
(and currently my goal is not to become a skilled luthier, simply to build this one prototype
guitar to test the idea sonically)

I also completely understand the angle of your concern that
replying to this post and encouraging this approach would go against the
great idea of the forum.. (to encourage and support people in becoming skilled luthiers)

what i am doing is a bad idea if that is your goal.
(or not the safest etc etc)

I will likely have many questions as I continue on this build,
and appreciate the offer to ask questions to those who DO understand the craft.

the design I cant talk about yet, but suffice to say, you would not like it,
or think it would work. that I am almost sure of..
but it did work. (to some degree)

sorry I didn't get to shortening up the clip yet, but i will,
especially if you have a genuine interest to hear it.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:20 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
Looking forward to hearing the clip.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:25 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm
Posts: 104
btw..

thanks..
for making your postings nice.

it would be really easy to say something like..

that's just whacked, and that i'm some kind of idiot for even doing
something in a weird way..

I appreciate the positivity in your writing.
and you are a great communicator, because it didn't come off negative at all..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:48 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian
Old Growth Brazilian

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:56 am
Posts: 10707
Location: United States
No need to thank me for doing what we all should do. idunno

I am still courious as to what your design change is :D


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:17 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm
Posts: 104
I cannot really discuss it at this point, as its not protected at all..

I will share more when i can....


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:20 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:42 am
Posts: 564
Location: United States
First name: Stephen
Last Name: Ziegenfuss
City: Jackson
State: MI
Zip/Postal Code: 49203
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
My friend,

Mr. Payne is so very good at being very encouraging despite the awkward nature of the posts.

I fear that you are posting based on certain expectations of those of us here, and almost attempting to goad those responses from us.

As a young builder myself, what I have found here is that what is respected is a true pursuit of the art of building stringed instruments - not just those of a particular shape, style, string, etc...so be encouraged in that way.

Finally, concerning a new stringed instrument design - throughout history, you may be seeing an assumptotical convergance to a particular design based on the design criteria. i.e. in the western modal system with a mathematical series of overtones, culture has arrived at the instuments prevalent today. In other cultures, with differing modal systems, instuments differ accordingly. That being said, if you are building a "guitar" as it is so typically defined here, you are already constrained to a certain understanding of the art - which is what I believe Michael was hinting at. There is a mountain of experience within these design constraints that have converged on a particular solution set, with differing builders building and designing to optimize certain preferences within the global solution set.

That being said, take what can help, leave what you don't want, and please let us in on the secret when you are properly protected.
Stephen

_________________
www.ziegenfussguitars.com


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:18 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm
Posts: 104
here is a youtube vid I did....

this is NOT my prototype.. I just wanted to see if the youtube idea works for sharing ideas..
it's a Johnny Cash cover - "Cocain Blues" - some language (PG13)

in my other vids there is "Hurt" which is a cool song too....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC6TgUFv ... annel_page


check it out, and let me know what you think..
if you like it, please send the link to friends...

Cheers,
Dale


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PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:05 am 
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Walnut
Walnut
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:44 am
Posts: 39
Location: Muskegon, MI
First name: Ron
Last Name: Senf
City: Muskegon
State: Michigan
Zip/Postal Code: 49445
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Hey welcome to the forum. I checked out your youtube vids and really enjoyed them. Your play of "Hurt" was particularly nice. Thanks for sharing.

_________________
Ron


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