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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:13 am 
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Walnut
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Hey Mates! Looks like a pretty cool forum, thanx Mr. Lance! Has anyone figured out the Strandberg Adjustable Fret Press Caul mechanism? I've tried SEVERAL times to purchase this "Gizmo" so as to PROPERLY press in wire on Conical radiused boards, but as yet it's not for sale. So if anyone can explain to me the "innards" of this thing, I'd sure appreciate it. I'm a Luthier, but also a retired CNC machinist/programmer, (now W/O machine access :( ). I really do NOT want to "regress" back to the old Fret Hammer days, so please, "Help Me If You Can I'm Feelin' Down :? ). Thanx Gb bg


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:25 pm 
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George,
I'd love to know more about this design. If Strandberg isn't still making them and is OK with it, I have easy access to CNC machining, and we could make a couple of these. I'd love to give one a try.



These users thanked the author dpetrzelka for the post: Pmaj7 (Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:05 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:57 pm 
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dpetrzelka wrote:
George,
I'd love to know more about this design. If Strandberg isn't still making them and is OK with it, I have easy access to CNC machining, and we could make a couple of these. I'd love to give one a try.
NUTS! I just lost my entire reply! Oh well, He's neither Making, "Them", (never has), nor Selling Them, merely sitting on it, for use in his own factory/shop. If offered $2,000,000 he'd probably go for it, how much you got? :lol: :lol: Appreciate the CNC offer, I sure miss my Former trade. Like a Marine, no "EX" Machinists, only "Former"ones laughing 6-hehe Check out link Gb bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq_smGnoXkU


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Is the caul made of some sort of very firm but somewhat flexible material? I can't figure out what is going on if it isn't.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:53 pm 
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PEEK thermoplastic polymer based on what I've been able to find.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyether_ether_ketone

https://www.curbellplastics.com/Research-Solutions/Materials/PEEK


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Cool!

New username, same ole Pat Macaluso!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Bryan Bear wrote:
Is the caul made of some sort of very firm but somewhat flexible material? I can't figure out what is going on if it isn't.

Yup, trade name P.E.E.K. (Polyetheretherkeytone), and as I gather, is extremely dense, yet flexible. Looking at the bottom sides of the(Alum.?) housing you will see two pins, the one on the right is "Fixed", but the one on the left is evidently "Fixed" to the housing, as well as the Caul, but rides in a elongated slot in the housing. When screwing IN the adjusting screw, the caul increases in radius or, stretches out, moving from a 12" radius, toward it's max. stated radius of 25" :?, with the screw going in as well! The internal mechanism that does this, is what we need to find out, I have no clue! :? :? Gb bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq_smGnoXkU


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:40 pm 
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I've already sketched out some ideas with my industrial design buddies for how an internal mechanism could work to shape the caul, and would ideally want it to go from about 6" to 24".
That said, I don't want to infringe on their idea if its a product they intend to move forward with.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:12 pm 
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dpetrzelka wrote:
I've already sketched out some ideas with my industrial design buddies for how an internal mechanism could work to shape the caul, and would ideally want it to go from about 6" to 24".
That said, I don't want to infringe on their idea if its a product they intend to move forward with.

To my knowledge there is NO Patent, pending or otherwise, neither a copyright. There has been ample time for any and all of these to be initiated, but no action taken to date! The Youtube Video he published was on March, 10, 2012! So IMHO, show me, and lets bless a well-deserving bunch of fellow Luthiers! You can't copy something you can not SEE, and that sums up the mechanism, as put forth. Gb bg PS: 6" to 24" would indeed be IDEAL, and don't forget to make it wide enough for WIDE board Basses! And don't forget to send me one, Har! Thanx mate!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:17 pm 
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beatlegeo wrote:
dpetrzelka wrote:
I've already sketched out some ideas with my industrial design buddies for how an internal mechanism could work to shape the caul, and would ideally want it to go from about 6" to 24".
That said, I don't want to infringe on their idea if its a product they intend to move forward with.

To my knowledge there is NO Patent, pending or otherwise, neither a copyright. There has been ample time for any and all of these to be initiated, but no action taken to date! The Youtube Video he published was on March, 10, 2012! So IMHO, show me, and lets bless a well-deserving bunch of fellow Luthiers! You can't copy something you can not SEE, and that sums up the mechanism, as put forth. Gb bg PS: 6" to 24" would indeed be IDEAL, and don't forget to make it wide enough for WIDE board Basses! And don't forget to send me one, Har! Thanx mate!
PS: The other factor would be (as you no doubt know) it would have to have sufficient rigidity to hold it's shape under pressing force! Just sayin :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:10 pm 
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dpetrzelka wrote:
I've already sketched out some ideas with my industrial design buddies for how an internal mechanism could work to shape the caul, and would ideally want it to go from about 6" to 24".
That said, I don't want to infringe on their idea if its a product they intend to move forward with.

Hey Daniel, This is such an exciting possibility (to me), to be able to PRESS frets into a CONICAL radiused Fretboard. If it wouldn't be an imposition, could you please send me a sketch of what sort of mechanism Y'all have come up with? I've got a "RHYNE" Sloped shouldered Acoustic that as soon as the wire, and an Ebony Bridge Blank arrive from "Unca Stewie", I'll be replacing my customers frets 1-8, and wouldn't ya know it, it has a (get this) conical 7.25 to approx 14" radius, (What was he thinking?)My customer expects delivery in about 3 weeks, so a sketch would help me to possibly fabricate one of these adjustable cauls, cause I prefer to "Wimp out" when it comes to going back to "Das Hammerschlogin" technique. Hope to hear from you soon! Thanx, Gb bg


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:00 pm 
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I’m assuming it is being pulled up/pushed down in the center, and the slot merely gives it room to deform. I picture some arm that pivots with the turning of the screw thereby also supporting the center under pressure.

I’m not an engineer, but I do have access to a large Haas machine. Someone figure it out and I’d be happy to make a handful for the cost of material.

(Rant alert!)
As far as intellectual property, I have a”Fox” bender, several “Dreadnaught”, “L-0”, and “Telecaster” guitars I’ve made, and endless other innovations I’ve incorporated into my work that were dreamt up by others. For all of history we learned craft from copying others. We wouldn’t have evolved from subsistence hunting throwing stones if we didn’t copy innovations and pass them along. This obsession with intellectual property rights is a mystery to me and seems to stifle innovation and reward owners of abstract property rights over people creating actual useful goods. As someone who has worked most of my adult life as an attorney attending to these relatively new property owners, the absurd reverence, sense of superiority, and sanctimony around often modest little innovations reminds me of medieval notions of Devine Right.
(Phew!!! End of rant)
(Sorry for the rant)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:28 pm 
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rlrhett wrote:
I’m assuming it is being pulled up/pushed down in the center, and the slot merely gives it room to deform. I picture some arm that pivots with the turning of the screw thereby also supporting the center under pressure.

I’m not an engineer, but I do have access to a large Haas machine. Someone figure it out and I’d be happy to make a handful for the cost of material.

(Rant alert!)
As far as intellectual property, I have a”Fox” bender, several “Dreadnaught”, “L-0”, and “Telecaster” guitars I’ve made, and endless other innovations I’ve incorporated into my work that were dreamt up by others. For all of history we learned craft from copying others. We wouldn’t have evolved from subsistence hunting throwing stones if we didn’t copy innovations and pass them along. This obsession with intellectual property rights is a mystery to me and seems to stifle innovation and reward owners of abstract property rights over people creating actual useful goods. As someone who has worked most of my adult life as an attorney attending to these relatively new property owners, the absurd reverence, sense of superiority, and sanctimony around often modest little innovations reminds me of medieval notions of Devine Right.
(Phew!!! End of rant) It all boils down in this world, to the Right to have Might! I agree totally with your 'Rant'. I would have been very happy for Mr. Strandberg, if he made a Bundle off his clever invention, and I've offered several times to help him toward that end with my humble purchase, but instead, he has done nothing with it, except to use it in the construction of his own wonderfully crafted instruments. Stop, and think what this ONE item would replace? ALL of the std. brass cauls offered by the whole industry!! Puts me to mind of the legendary 200 MPG carburetor, or the H2O Auto engine, neither of which ever saw a "Production" line. I'm waiting now to hear back from Daniel, and his friends about a sketch of their ideas on this Gizmo, and I hope it doesn't receive the aforementioned "Strandberg" strangulation, we'll see, and can only pray, and hope!
(Sorry for the rant)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:19 am 
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dpetrzelka wrote:
I've already sketched out some ideas with my industrial design buddies for how an internal mechanism could work to shape the caul, and would ideally want it to go from about 6" to 24".
That said, I don't want to infringe on their idea if its a product they intend to move forward with.

Hey Mate! Any progress on the sketches? Gb bg


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:35 pm 
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beatlegeo wrote:
dpetrzelka wrote:
I've already sketched out some ideas with my industrial design buddies for how an internal mechanism could work to shape the caul, and would ideally want it to go from about 6" to 24".
That said, I don't want to infringe on their idea if its a product they intend to move forward with.

To my knowledge there is NO Patent, pending or otherwise, neither a copyright. There has been ample time for any and all of these to be initiated, but no action taken to date! The Youtube Video he published was on March, 10, 2012! So IMHO, show me, and lets bless a well-deserving bunch of fellow Luthiers! You can't copy something you can not SEE, and that sums up the mechanism, as put forth. Gb bg PS: 6" to 24" would indeed be IDEAL, and don't forget to make it wide enough for WIDE board Basses! And don't forget to send me one, Har! Thanx mate!

OK! So, it's been quite a while since I've heard from you. Is there any "tangible' progress? I'd love to see the "sketches" you guys have made on this, so I "might" be able to make my own!!! Thanx Gb bg


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:08 am 
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Following! If there's enough interest I could manufacture these as well.

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These users thanked the author Andy Birko for the post: Pmaj7 (Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:32 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:12 am 
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p.s. I do have one set of the "ultimate fret press cauls" left if anyone's interested

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:49 am 
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I wasn't aware that you had completed this 'Clone' of the strandberg caul design, and yes, I'm interested. Gb bg


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:56 am 
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Sorry, I wasn't following this thread closely enough, didn't mean to leave everyone hanging.

Work got busy, so we hadn't moved beyond some quick lunchtime sketches. But I plan to get back at it. Need to tighten up the drawings, might 3D print a model to test a few elements, and then I can move to machining a prototype.

One consideration is if PEEK thermoplastic polymer is critical for durability/flexibility of the caul itself, as that material is substantially more expensive than any other component in the adjustable caul.

Is the standard 2.5" caul width appropriate for the majority of uses? I never work on 7-string guitars - how wide are those fretboard getting at the body?

Fortunately I have both the 3D printers and a full machine shop available, just need to make time to finalize the drawings.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:57 am 
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Subscribing to thread so that I don't miss your posts.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:58 am 
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beatlegeo wrote:
I wasn't aware that you had completed this 'Clone' of the strandberg caul design, and yes, I'm interested. Gb bg


I haven't made a clone, I'm just interested in this project an would consider making/selling them assuming all's good with the originator.

The "ultimate fret press caul" is this: https://birkonium.com/product/ultimate- ... -caul-set/ A few years ago I made a bunch of sets of these for forum users. Kind of a brute force approach to the same thing.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:09 pm 
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George, Andy's "Ultimate fret press caul" system is a great solution if you need to work on a conically radiused board in the near term—and its really a great deal for the amount of work that goes into it.
https://birkonium.com/product/ultimate-fretting-caul-set/


I have machined many custom fixed-radius cauls for restoration/build projects, but long for the simplification of an adjustable radius caul. I'll keep you all posted on progress.

Image

Image



These users thanked the author dpetrzelka for the post: Pmaj7 (Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:41 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:18 pm 
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dpetrzelka wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't following this thread closely enough, didn't mean to leave everyone hanging.

Work got busy, so we hadn't moved beyond some quick lunchtime sketches. But I plan to get back at it. Need to tighten up the drawings, might 3D print a model to test a few elements, and then I can move to machining a prototype.

One consideration is if PEEK thermoplastic polymer is critical for durability/flexibility of the caul itself, as that material is substantially more expensive than any other component in the adjustable caul.

Is the standard 2.5" caul width appropriate for the majority of uses? I never work on 7-string guitars - how wide are those fretboard getting at the body?

Fortunately I have both the 3D printers and a full machine shop available, just need to make time to finalize the drawings.

Yeah, I initially mentioned the $$$$$$$ of 'Peek'! Appears that is the only suitable Mat., however! PLEASE keep me/us informed of your progress, and I would still love to see your Cad workups while waiting?? Gb bg


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