Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Tue Mar 19, 2024 3:53 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:05 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12964
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Here is a tip that I learned from Mario Proulx that saves me lots of time! [:Y:]

After gluing the top and back plates onto a guitar rim one way to nix the overhang that we leave on our plates is to use a flush-cut router bit either in a laminate trimmer free-handing it (perhaps with a shop-made donut) or with the trimmer in one of the various types of binding channel cutter jigs.

As you all know prior to cutting the actual binding channels it's important to first true up your sides so that the binding cutter router bit is registering/riding on a uniform side. This makes for a more uniform binding channel.

If you go from the flush cut bit which does not always really cut flush to sanding/truing your sides the top and back plates including some end grain will be hitting the sanding block when you attempt to true up your sides. This can and will greatly slow down your progress if sanding by hand with a block.

Mario's tip is to after cutting the plates flush or close to it use one of the bearings that came with your binding cutter bit set that only takes off a very small amount of material just beyond flush with the sides. Adjust the bit so that it's depth is less than what you would use for your bindings and again it's a bearing that will not cut as deep as you would use for your bindings either.

What results is that the back and top plates are taken out of play while you true up your sides to cut the actual binding channels. In addition this also acts as a bit of a pre-cut removing some material and reducing the amount of material that you will be removing when actually cutting the final binding channels. Another benefit is that this less aggressive final cut is also less risky since it's taking a smaller bite.

I just did this technique this morning and instead of sanding my sides now of which I HATE sanding.... [headinwall] [headinwall] [headinwall] I thought that I would take this opportunity to slack off and write this toot of sorts sharing Mario's method that he shared with us on the OLF in the past.

Here we see my flush-cut bit installed in my laminate trimmer and covered with dust and dirt... :shock: :? The tape over the bearing is a tip that I received also in the past on the OLF from Uncle Bob aka Zootman aka Bob C. The idea is that the tape will reduce the tendency of a bearing to leave a crease on a side if the laminate trimmer is not perfectly square to the side or your bearing does not turn absolutely freely. Thanks Bob!!

Attachment:
DSC02625.jpg


Once we cut off the overhang with the flush-cut bit we now install the binding cutter bit only with a bearing that we probably never have used prior. The bigger the better so long as the bearing leaves some cutter edge exposed. The intent here is to cut a shallow binding ledge that is not as deep in depth or height as the final binding ledge will be.

Attachment:
DSC02627.jpg


Here is the resulting "pre-binding ledge."

Attachment:
DSC02631.jpg


I am using my Stew-Mac cutter that is in need of sharpening and was replaced with an LMI cutter set because the largest bearing that came with my LMI set does not operate smoothly - time to call LMI on Monday. You can see the fuzzies - sure sign of a dull bit and possibly dull operator....

Attachment:
DSC02632.jpg


No matter what binding cutter jig you use the principals of this tip should translate well for you and save you some time sanding the sides.

Attachment:
DSC02634.jpg


And the obligatory shot of some dirt in my shop... :shock: :D

Attachment:
DSC02636.jpg


Sorry I digressed - again... So what results is that the back and top are now out of play as you true up/sand your sides prior to making your actual binding cuts.

Attachment:
DSC02638.jpg


I normally use a maple block that I floss on my surface plate to true-up sides but I can't find it this morning.... [headinwall] and kind of have some memory of using it as a shim inside a wall when I built my shop... idunno oops_sign

Attachment:
DSC02639.jpg


That's it, thanks to Mario for the tip and thanks for looking! :)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:49 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:02 pm
Posts: 801
Location: United States
First name: Gene
Last Name: Zierdt
City: Sebastopol
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95472
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
DIRT IN HESH'S SHOP... THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END wow7-eyes

Nah, I'll bet the free life of that dirt was about 3.4 milliseconds laughing6-hehe

But seriously, this is a great tip- Thanks Hesh!!

_________________
Gene

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:55 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:56 am
Posts: 855
Location: United States
Thanks, Heshie,

I think this is one of those small details that makes the difference between a good job and an excellent one. Where would I be without the OLF and mentors like Hesh? Take a look at my first guitar and you would get some idea. On second thought, just trust me. It ain't pretty!

Thanks again,
Max

_________________
Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:21 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:55 am
Posts: 982
Location: Traverse City Michigan
Good stuff Hesh.

One of the best tools I use for sanding sides is something I borrowed but can recall from who. Get some cutting board material HDPE or something like that, and cut it to a piece about 4 inches wide by 10 inches long and the come around 1/2 inch thick. Curf it so it is flexible along its length leaving about 1 or 2 mm at the bottom of the kerf. Buy some adhesive back sand paper and stick it on. It is a very useful tool for both convex and concave curves and leaves a great surface.

_________________
Ken


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:46 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12964
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Thanks Guys!! :)

Ken my friend that is a great tip!!!

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:07 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:51 am
Posts: 1310
Location: Michigan,U.S.A.
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
That's a great tip for saveing time sanding which i don't enjoy myself either. [:Y:]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:18 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7233
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Hesh, that's a good tip and Ken, yours will be useful as well. Thanks guys!

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:04 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12964
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Thanks Mark and Steve! [:Y:] :)

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:29 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:44 am
Posts: 1005
Location: SE Michigan
First name: Kenneth
Last Name: Casper
City: Northville
State: MI
Country: U.S.A
Focus: Build
This is a great tip that I have been doing since I first saw it mentioned by Hesh some time ago. It truly does speed up leveling the sides.

Good show, Hesh [:Y:]

Ken

_________________
http://www.casperguitar.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:37 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12964
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Thanks Ken but the real thanks goes to Mario - that is where I learned this from.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com