Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:20 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:06 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Buford, GA.
First name: Dean
Last Name: Miller
City: Buford
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30518
Country: US
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi,

Is using 400 grit sandpaper too fine a grit for finishing the guitar wood? I guess what I am getting at does it close off the wood so the stain doesn't penetrate as well or does make any difference at all ?

_________________
Dean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Magnolia DE
First name: Brian
Last Name: Howard
City: Magnolia
State: Delaware
Zip/Postal Code: 19962
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Yes that is too fine. It can close off the wood fibers so the stain doesn't penetrate and lays more on the surface causing adhesion problems with the finish. Even without stain that is too fine, the finish needs a surface texture to grab hold of or it can delaminate or peel. I never sand past 220 prior to applying any finish materials and in most cases only to 180. I go to 220 on spruce and other woods that do not need a pore fill and 180 on the rest.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/



These users thanked the author B. Howard for the post: AR15DCM (Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:40 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:20 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:41 am
Posts: 150
First name: Matt
Last Name: Cushman
City: Great Falls
State: MT
Zip/Postal Code: 59401
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
For sitka spruce I go up to 400 grit hand sanded. It brings out the silk figure found in most Sitka. :) I sunburst many of my builds and so far 400 grit hasn't caused any problem with water based dyes. As always test results on a piece of scrap wood first!

_________________
http://www.cushmanguitars.com/.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain



These users thanked the author Cush for the post: AR15DCM (Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:39 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:25 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 1170
First name: Rodger
Last Name: Knox
City: Baltimore
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21234
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The exception to what Brian says above is TruOil and similar hand applied oil varnishes. I've sanded spruce, curly maple, and bloodwood to 800 grit with no adhension issues. Going that smooth really brings out any silk or figure.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon



These users thanked the author Rodger Knox for the post: AR15DCM (Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:40 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:39 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Buford, GA.
First name: Dean
Last Name: Miller
City: Buford
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30518
Country: US
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
B. Howard wrote:
Yes that is too fine. It can close off the wood fibers so the stain doesn't penetrate and lays more on the surface causing adhesion problems with the finish. Even without stain that is too fine, the finish needs a surface texture to grab hold of or it can delaminate or peel. I never sand past 220 prior to applying any finish materials and in most cases only to 180. I go to 220 on spruce and other woods that do not need a pore fill and 180 on the rest.


Thanks Brian!

What about Mahogany, it seems fairly tight grained to me? Would I use something in the range of 120-180 grit?

_________________
Dean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:05 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Magnolia DE
First name: Brian
Last Name: Howard
City: Magnolia
State: Delaware
Zip/Postal Code: 19962
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I go to 180 on Mahogany. This is based on hand sanding and not by machine. Sanders seem to burnish the wood a bit more and I would stop at 150 if using one on mahogany.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:42 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:08 pm
Posts: 871
I usually sand to 400 by hand if I am staining a mahogany neck. If i stain over agressive scratches, they can become even more obvious. Everything else goes to 320. I see sand scratches in the wood after finish if sanded less than 320. I agree with what others say about the silking in spruce, 320 to 400 allows it to have an "iridescent" appearance that the lower, more agressively grits seem break up and disguise. No adhesion issues for me.

_________________
jw ( o)===:::


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:19 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Buford, GA.
First name: Dean
Last Name: Miller
City: Buford
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30518
Country: US
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
B. Howard wrote:
I go to 180 on Mahogany. This is based on hand sanding and not by machine. Sanders seem to burnish the wood a bit more and I would stop at 150 if using one on mahogany.


I am hand sanding. I guess I will head to home depot and pick up some 180 LOL...

_________________
Dean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:24 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Buford, GA.
First name: Dean
Last Name: Miller
City: Buford
State: Georgia
Zip/Postal Code: 30518
Country: US
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I used a scraper to get the corner rounding that I wanted and of course the klutz that I am I slipped a couple times. I had one really bad gouge on the top and I had to level sand it with 120 to get it out. I could kick myself in the arse. Eh, live and learn...

I had put a black stain on to highlight the grain and discovered that I had screwed up the sides and there were not perpendicular to the top and back. So I had to throw it back on the spindle sander to fix that. Then I went to work with the scrapers working on the edges.

Oh forgot to mention, I am talking electric guitar body. Here it is just before I gouged it... Its a strat (obviously) that I modified a bit to be narrower...

Attachment:
MahoganyBody-sm.png


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
Dean


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:02 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:44 am
Posts: 571
First name: Mark
City: Concord
State: NC
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
One exception to the 180g recommendation is on the end grain of most hardwoods and Pine. You can use the burnishing effects of 400g to slow the absorption of dye and stain which will help it from turning much darker than the face grain surface.



These users thanked the author Mark Fogleman for the post: AR15DCM (Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:40 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com