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 Post subject: Carved Top thickness .
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:38 pm 
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I am starting a couple A Mandolins and I am thinking about tackling Carved tops . What Is Usal Starting Thickness of the back and top prior to carving ?

Is there a Good tutorial out there .

I have A Plans & F Plans , However its always better to see it in action. I would Appreciate ANY suggestions and Insite into Carved Top.

I have cherry set aside for this project.

idunno

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Yaaaaa! How cool is this! A mando section. I've seen you hanging at the Cafe at times James. It's a very cool place but I didn't have a bunch of success getting answers to questions there. Hopefully it works out a little better here but I'm happy just to have a one stop forum. I don't have enough free time for two.

Having just done an "A" I can tell you want to start our with 5/8" wood. If you band saw them into wedges you'll save some time if there not already. Although saving time wasn't something I was worried about when carving. A really enjoyable experience.

Have fun with it!

Cheers,
Danny

BTW Cherry should look deadly!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:09 am 
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I Agree Dannyv seems like the people here are more laid back and not so quick to say " read a book " or "use the search" And will willingly share thoughts .

Yes this is great [:Y:]

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:21 am 
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I also started out with 5/8" boards that were un-wedged. It's amazing how large a volume of little curls one can generate in order to get to the proper shape and contours. Friends and family who stopped by always seemed to be impressed with the curl production process...even though I kinda felt like a dumbass for not wedging the boards in the first place. laughing6-hehe I really have to admit to liking the carving process, however.

I'm wondering how many builders get their plates CNC'd before doing the final profiling and thicknessing? I could see myself doing that if I ever needed to make lots of instruments...what an elegant problem that would be! [:Y:]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:31 am 
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I usually get my wedges at around 1-7/8 to 2-1/4" and saw them in half. I use an old pantograph router system to hog off the majority of the wood, but it leaves the top or back around 3/8" thick and the rest is hand carved and sanded to the proper graduations.
I built a few mandolins in the '70's and hand carved the whole plate, and when I started up again in the middle '90's, the first thing I did was to make some templates and get the router setup. I'm too old for the CNC route, and also prefer to hand graduate the last 3/16" or so. Too many folks just CNC it down to being able to sand with 150 grit and done. That doesn't take much into account of the density of the plank. I know there are folks that will do it for you, but I don't feel like sharing my grads with them. That part is proprietary.
I have to rout some tops, so I'll post a few photos in the next few days.
BTW, don't ask me why, but I pretty much work in mm for mandolins and inches in guitars...pretty strange.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:02 am 
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WEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLL I guess that kills my idea of carving the cherry ones , Im at 3/8" now soooooooooooo I guess they wont be carved this time [headinwall] LOL laughing6-hehe

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:28 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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James, that's 3/8" with the inside partially dished out. I'll post some photos when I get to routing.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:10 pm 
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Ok I would Appreciate that .

No I meant that My Blanks are at 3/8" Thick now . So I am already to thin , I can do a little arch , However not as much as it normally should be.

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:14 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Just get some 4/4 cherry at the lumber yard. Slip match the joint.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Hi James, you said you had both A and F plans, which ones are you talking about? Are you not going to follow the dimensions for the plates that the plans show?

I carve the plates by establishing the edge thickness with the router table and Safe-T planer, then go on to rough planing the top profile with a jack plane, and refining it with violin planes and scrapers. I don't make enough mandolins to justify building a copy carver, besides I like to fart around with planes anyways, when I do make the occasional mandolin. Makes me feel like a real woodworker! After the outside shape is where I think I should be, I do the drill press thing and hog out most of the inside with a gouge and carving spoon, before I refine the shape with violin planes and scrapers again.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Just got the plans in yesterday , havent even had a chance to look them over good yet. I just like to see people doing stuff with my eyes . Always makes more sense to me when I can see it . " this comming from a guy who went to college to be an architect " laughing6-hehe I like the shots you have there , I will be doing somthing along that lines soon im sure .

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:07 pm 
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I too am a recovering architect...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:11 pm 
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Nice pics Arnt.

That side lighting really helps to visualize progress on the contouring...plus it makes you look like the old world master that you are! [:Y:]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:51 pm 
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This is so cool! I can't believe I'm reading it all. One of these days, maybe! :D

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:49 pm 
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duh Padmas admonisment to wudwerker Part 1

WudWerkr wrote:
Just got the plans in yesterday , havent even had a chance to look them over good yet. I just like to see people doing stuff with my eyes . Always makes more sense to me when I can see it . " this comming from a guy who went to college to be an architect " laughing6-hehe I like the shots you have there , I will be doing somthing along that lines soon im sure .



Yo, wud,

What you talking about "just got the plans yesterday" ???

Now if they be plans to evacuate the planet in view of its possible demise, well then me wooden't mind eyeballing them...

However, if they be mando plans...chuck em...and keep doing what you been doing.
I mean like do you really wanna send the next few months of your life building something that comes of the assembly line in every size shape and colour you possibly can imagine all for $199. on Ebay (with hard shell case and extra strings)

Ya right ...Me didn't thought so.

You just keep building that original stuff ... you go pull the wool over yer own eyes, you ain't gonna be fooling the Padma. You and me both know your heats into your own designs.

Ya, eye ball them plans, stash them for reference, and go build your own....you will be happier and you know it.

bliss bliss

icu
blessings
Duh
Padma

Here in endith the Padmas admonishment to wudwerker, as is in accordance with unwritten words to be laid down on right brainers who have momentary lapses of "towing the party line" Plans...ya right...wud...go smoke a beer... this madness will pass.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:08 pm 
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ROFL laughing6-hehe

dang ole fella , u are way to smart for your own good laughing6-hehe

I will be going my own way u can believe that . I will be taking those plans and making MY IDEA of what they should be Trust me on that.

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:06 pm 
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duh Padmas admonishment to wudwerker Part 2


WudWerkr wrote:
Just got the plans in yesterday , I just like to see people doing stuff with my eyes . Always makes more sense to me when I can see it ..



Yo, wud,

so you need to see it...cool

see this

straight line....left to right

add two fulcrums.

one is the bridge the other the nut. Distance apart is like size...don't matter. However various type of instruments tend to frequent the approx same lengths between the fulcrums....

see the line (strings) breaking at an angle at these fulcrums

add a fret board

Note that fulcrum angle on bridge can increase and decrease the pressure on the top plate.

Don't listen to the dudes who say...my plates start at 5/8s Ya right. 5/8s of what and for what?

Go with whatever wood you got makeing sure your top thickness under the bridge is gonna support the pressure form the angle of that line crossing the fulcrum of your bridge. Bracing helps.

The dimensional measurement under the feet of the bridge is determined by your guesstimated calculations of the amt of pressure generated by the bridge break angel and how thick you intuitively feel, think, determine, that piece of wood gotta be so the bridge don't bend, deflect or pop thru the top deck.

This measurement is actually pretty standard in mando construction, varying only slightly to accommodate the strength of the particular wood and the pressure from the bridge angle break.

Keep adding parts to the image...ribs. tail piece, neck (pay attention to the neck angle, rim level, hight of bridge, ends of the strings (headstock and tail piece) and fidget them. Add the rib hight
and the thickness of what you gonna wanna use for your back.


So wud, if you with me so far....

see string length, the 2 fulcrums break angles...take a look at your wood... bearing in mind the thickness needed directly under the bridge, from there on in your on your own. Be happy, not too many luthiers ever get to this point in building from scratch. And you my friend have the insanity to actually start there. Yay!

So regarding you, me and the other mando builders. Me; me listen to what they hasta say ~ well sorta. Them...they gonna do that they do, and you, I suggest you follow your heart or you might end up like them... that would only leave me, and then what?

So follow your heart and...just do it!

bliss bliss

Duh
Padma

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:05 am 
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duh , that's one way to look at it! :)


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