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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Hi folks,

I've been at this build for nearly a year now but wanted to shared progress pics all in one place instead of pestering you all with questions and peppering you with pics in many disparate threads.

Specs:
Design: Michael Payne OLF medium jumbo
Soundboard: Western Red Cedar
Sides: solid African (or was it Honduran?) mahogany
Back: same as sides
Body trim, rosette ring: East Indian Rosewood
Kerfing: Spanish cedar

The process has been sort of "learn as you go" process and I've been following Jonathan Kinkead's book as an overall guide but for particulars I've been watching the O'Brien Luthier Tips du Jour and Blues Creek Guitar videos as well. I've been posing a lot of questions here and sharing the process on some guitar player forums as well.

Step One: acquiring the plans and joining the plates

For starters, I purchased the plans from Stewmac and a friend provided me with the board sets. Here I am last August at the get-go pondering on what I've gotten myself into:
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Then my friend got me started on my way with joining the plates using a jointer table, a work board, some nails and straightedge, some Titebond and whatever was laying around for weight/clamping:
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First oopsie: the cedar split along the grain at a weak point. My friend saved my bacon and re-joined it. YOu can hardly tell it even broke:
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:52 pm 
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Step two: building the forms

Next up was to build the forms, templates and mold. This step actually took the better part of the fall and winter because of conflicts in scheduling due to business and family matters. I started the process at my friend's workshop with MDF but had trouble learning how to use the bandsaw.

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I ended up doing it over in my own basement using birch plywood and what I could salvage from the firs attempt.

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BY the time this was all done, a good 6 months had elapsed. Little had actually been done with the tonewoods other than learning how to use my friend's Jet 10/20 thickness sander.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:02 pm 
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Step 3: thickness sanding and rosette/back strip inlays.

Like I said previously, it took months to figure out how to even get the sanding rolls on the drum sander but eventually I got to the point where I could work on the rosette. Around Halloween I was ready to move forward. My friend had a box of rosewood scrap and I intended to use it for the main rosette ring and body trim. I planned and planned and even crunched some numbers and drafted something out in Adobe Illustrator:

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...but in the end my lack of skills and many failed attempts left me with a rosewood coaster set but no usable rings:

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Chip-out was the real issue and eventually we learned to use more shellac and just cut a wider ring. FWIW I didn't want to do a radial rosette:

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For the backstrip I didn't like the contrast of EIR so I went with flamed mahogany instead. As you can see, I had trouble routing out the trench correctly so my purfling was leaning:

Image

Next up: bending the sides and finally using those forms and molds!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:13 pm 
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By March things really started to move forward in starts and fits. Again, scheduling was the biggest factor as my friend had a rush of business to attend to and me with the family obligations. Once I got the forms and mold done I was at a major milestone: bending the sides! Warning: it took TWO attempts and wasted a set of sides. gaah

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Put it in there carefully and don't fool with it...

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Oops! Actually I used a different word!

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We fixed it up and I moved on to the other side but neglected to move the form to the other side of the bending apparatus, resulting in two left sides which I didn't discover until later until after I'd installed the blocks. That's Oopsies TWO and THREE.

I'm blessed to have such generous friends though and was graciously provided with another set of sides and I paid extra special attention to details. For the sake of speeding things along and not reliving old headaches this is the result thus far and it's nearly ready for the plates to be glued on:

Image

In progress: side slats for the sides and my misadventures in soundboard bracing


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Wow - it's actually been two weeks since I glued the kerfing on. That's pretty indicative of how slow this build has been going. I average about 6-9 hours a month and I've been working very inefficiently. For the slats I used some walnut my friend had laying around and spent most of last week cutting them to size and gluing them up. The other night I spent 3 hours sanding the top rim to a 28' radius. Yes, that's a drill bit straight into an old post office table so that I can mount a 28' radius dish over the sides and attempt to get the geometry just right.

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It made a LOT of sawdust. I was surprised at how much but the waist was the last area to get sanded down so everything else got sanded down pretty far.

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Then I sanded the radius to the gluing side of the new X braces:

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Plans for next time:
1: check the angle of the top of the neck block extension. It should be 91.5°. If it's not then I'm going to re-sand the entire upper bout with a flat sanding stick so that the angle is correct. I don't want the dreaded 14th fret hump when the neck goes on.
2: flip the mold over and (using the 20' radius dish with sanding disc) sand the back rim.
3: start gluing the braces to the cedar top again.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Neil, I got a real kick out of seeing your anvil and shoe form providing clamping weight. I can't tell you how many times I've done stuff life that. Hey...if it works, then it's okay! You are documenting the project well.
Keep us informed as you go along.
Patrick


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:31 am 
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Looking good! Keep the pics coming!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:37 pm 
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I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure Wile E. Coyote recommends the use of a larger anvil.

(looking good [:Y:] )

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:13 pm 
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I've started the second attempt at bracing. For this stage I'm following Natelson & Cumpiano's process, though I've deviated by not gluing down the bridge plate. I'm saving that for last - after I've glued down the X braces.

Image

The X has a 28' radius but the UTB and the finger braces are flat underneath, again as Cumpiano and Natelson documented in their book. This is where I'm going to deviate from their process and move on to Johnathan Kinkead's. I'll be marking the X where the finger braces and tone bars intersect and shaping the ends so that I can overly the X and mark the intersections so that I can cut housings in the X braces.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:08 pm 
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I decided to put off the lower face bars and just glue in the X brace. This time I used the radius dish and I also took precautions to make sure that no go-bars slipped off!

Image

BTW, I also tapered the ends of the side finger braces with a chisel. This isn't their final shape yet though.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:32 pm 
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I'm almost finished up gluing on the bracing. Last night I focused on the bridge plate and lower face braces. I marked where my tone bars would fit into the X brace and I notched a slot with a 1/4" chisel:

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Then I worked on the bridge plate, which is made of flat sawn osage orange that I thickness sanded to .096". Then I did a dry test fit.
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Everything could be snugger but it was good enough for me to proceed after making a caul for the bridge plate:
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Hopefully I'll get to glue those last two sound hole braces next time. It's likely that everything will still look like this when I return:
Image


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:12 pm 
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It's been a while since I updated this thread but here's some images to keep up on things:

Bracing the back:

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I let it sit for a week in my friend's go-bar deck. Meanwhile, the RH in my basement - or at least the average between 3 hygrometers - was low enough so that I could take my top and sides home:

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I finished bracing up my top here at home. The sound hole grafts - which I chose to leave tall - were all that was left:

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At that point I started considering on how I want to do the voicing process. I'd heard that the voicing changes significantly after joining the top to the sides so I opted to start prepping the braces' ends.

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I also looked at that neck block again and thought that maybe it was a bit too weak - and I wanted to have soundhole access to the truss rod anyway - so I cut another 3/8" piece of birch plywood to fit underneath:

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:16 pm 
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On to shaping the braces. I chose to start by giving them a rounded profile first:

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Then I hit a snag when I cut a little too much in order to do a Somogyi-like upper transverse brace:

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So I thought it through and decided that I should create side slats to reinforce the area:

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I still haven't executed this idea though. I need to profile to the side surfaces and I'll still probably have to shim it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:19 pm 
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So as of today I'm now shaping the back braces and trying to figure out exactly where I need to notch out the kerfing for the top.

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:46 pm 
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I've moved on to scalloping the braces:

Image

Not quite done but almost. It's singing when I tap it. Yes, I'm going to reduce the height on those finger braces and sound hole grafts.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:25 pm 
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Very neat job there. [:Y:]

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:11 pm 
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It's been about 4 weeks since I braced the top and about 2 since I braced the back and scalloped each. After that I had the hardest time notching the kerfing - and this past week I had a cold that got into my chest and caused me to lose my voice - but now I think it's ready to go. The back more so than the top so I'm going to glue up the back as soon as I can.

There are a couple of issues I'm willing to move past if they're not crucial. Firstly, it took me a long time to find the right position for the back plate and several times while cutting the kerfing I had to adjust it, leaving gaps. Will it be an issue if I don't fill them in with scrap? The kerfing is also a little high around the waist, though; it stands proud of the sides about 1/32"-1/16" in places. Will that be an issue?

FWIW when I was "finished" with the slots I set the sides on the back plate and applied a little pressure since the back is losing its radius. I turned out the lights, then used a flashlight to find any leaks." The only ones were around my braces:

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Once I was satisfied with the placement of the centerline I held everything fast with a pair of bungie cords and flipped the mold:

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Then I went and marked where to trim the center strip. I had to take everything apart and the lack of a radius on the back made the trim less precise than I would have liked but I'll live with it for now. Once I got everything back in place I went and traced the outline along the kerfing. That's so I know where to put the bead of glue when it's time to quick hymning and hawing about it:

Image

All is still not quite ready yet though. Firstly, I don't have access to the 20' radius dish I used to brace the back, but I don't think that's going to be an issue. My plan is to lay the mold face down with the back up so that I can apply the go bars using some scrap soft wood as cauls:

Image

Another factor is the RH in my basement; it's all over the place. Recent rainstorms have spiked the RH to the upper 40% range. I'd rather it were in the upper 30's. It seems the closer to the floor the higher the RH. Having a couple of desk lamps nearby seems to help - at least in the immediate area. Hopefully it's good enough:

Image

I ultimately decided to wait until that evening to take everything over to my friend's climate-controlled shop and glue it all up there. I have to admit that I wasn't as cautious lining everything up and I can't wait to get back there to check things out.

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:10 pm 
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It's close to being a box. Right now I'd call it a bowl or a basket or something. That just means I could take it out of the mold without worrying about the waist flexing and setting it down on the router table to trim off the excess. Flip it over and it makes a nice conga noise too! :D

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Yes, there was a little tearout that was the result of a crack that had formed when I did a dry fit with the go-bar deck, but that's going to be routed out for the binding/purfling anyway so no big deal. All in all, not bad since I didn't use a flush cut bit on the router.

Image

Next up is to flatten the extension on the neck block so that it's flat (so that there's no hump at the 14th fret) and at 1.5° so that the neck angle is right when the time comes. I've yet to sign the underside of my soundboard but I have a little more sanding to do in order to get rid of all the flat surfaces.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:40 pm 
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On December 1st I attempted to close the box. Things did not go completely well to say the least, but hope still remains.

First, I tried to get the angle of the neck block's gluing face as close to 1.5° above the horizontal as possible:

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I cleaned the rims with naptha then spread Titebond:

Image

Then I put it in the gobar deck:

Image

A day later I took it out, but it didn't glue completely. Even worse though, my inexperience with using the gobar deck resulted in an unfortunate accident:

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The area not glued down spanned from the waist around the upper bout.
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It split clean through, inside the kerfing line:
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...but when fit back together was seamless:
Image

...too bad I botched it. (Note: this picture was taken after the events I am about to describe) :

beehive

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...and another go-bar slipped, causing another problem:
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Yup, the durned go-bar shot right into the soundhole. eek Luckily it didn't impact the top or the back plate; it hit the brace dead on. I'm hoping that that can be fixed. The cause was a combination of improperly installed go bars (namely that the angle was bad allowing them to slip,) individual cauls (instead of one big clamping caul) and too much extra material extending beyond the sides. Of course, there's also this:

Image

The shim was designed to fit against the upper transverse brace but apparently I glued it in the wrong position and didn't file away enough material for it to allow the top to sit flush.

Meanwhile though, because of the gobar catastrophe I became preoccupied with surveying the damage and missed the window to clamp down using another means and the top is still not completely affixed: gaah

Image

I'm too tired and shell-shocked to mess with it anymore. I have a couple of small areas to glue down and then I have to meddle with that broken section, which fortunately will be reduced in size to about 1/8" after I chisel away at the excess. I just don't trust myself with power tools right now! [headinwall]


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:03 pm 
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This is a post-dated post but I got the box fully closed and trimmed the worst of the excess a couple of weeks ago. I also glued the crack in that back brace down:

Image

Now it's ready for routing out the channels for the binding and the end wedge. The trim will match the EIR/BWB purfling rosette:
bbcbcnbcnbcxbhbxhcbhbcjngfojfjhfykjfhfhjhjfyjjjhdhfduijdnjfdjhjfjhfjbgfjhjdhjhdjkdkjgkjfjdhjfhdjfdjkjmjhfmjhhjfvjfjvmmmmcnjnfjjfjjckkfllhgkf
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Looking good, Neil! Overcoming the obstacles is at least half the fun. Keep up the good work. One thing, it looks to me like you could do with about half as much flex in your gobars. A taller deck or shorter bars would give you ample clamping pressure and help make things a bit easier to position.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:05 am 
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So the other night I got to devote a couple of hours toward getting started on the body binding. The rosewood binding is to be bound below and inside the main channel by bold BWB purfling. Actually, during the course of measuring/sighting up the laminate trimmer's flush cut bearing I found that an additional strip of purfling was necessary. I don't have pictures but I pulled a double-strip of black/brown purfling for the top and a less bold BWB strip for the back.

After the fiasco with trimming the excess top and back material on the router table - without the use of a flush cut bit - I was worried that another pass with a laminate trimmer would have similarly disastrous results. As it turned out, I didn't have much to worry about after all. As you can see, there's only a little left of that chipped out section at the edge of the upper bout. This is just the first pass though so even less will remain - I'd guess maybe even just a single grain line based on that notch I did with the laminate trimmer set to cut the channel for the purfling inside the binding.

Image

One thing that complicated matters was that I wasn't able to get the edge of the top 100% flush with the sides so I had to forego cutting that upper channel and move on to focusing on the main outer channel first. See how wiggly? :

Image

BTW, this was the first chance I was able to fully appreciate the relief and sense of accomplishment of completing the cloed soundbox. The cracked back brace may not be pretty but it's all back together and the box rings like a gong.

Image

Anyway, I just got acclimated enough to complete the top cut. Next time I'll do the main channel for the back then move on to doing those inner passes. The rosewood strips have been lightly sanded with 400 grit to remove any burrs and are ready to be bent with the Fox bender, just as I did with the mahogany sides.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:00 am 
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It looks like you're learning a lot! Keep at it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Neil,
With regard to that last router picture, I am not sure what's going on there, but I think you already know you MUST get some sort of routing set up that will allow you to register off your guitar side. Lots of bits and bushings available, and lots of shop-made set ups on the web, too. You're doing so VERY well up to this point. You're figuring out your problems and solving them so well. I am very impressed with the way you are working your way through this project! Stop a minute, now. Slow down. Figure out this routing problem, and don't push forward until you've got that figured out. We are all pulling for you. You'll get it. I know you will! (And if I am missing something here, I apologize to all.)

Patrick


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:45 pm 
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cphanna wrote:
Neil,
With regard to that last router picture, I am not sure what's going on there, but I think you already know you MUST get some sort of routing set up that will allow you to register off your guitar side. Lots of bits and bushings available, and lots of shop-made set ups on the web, too. You're doing so VERY well up to this point. You're figuring out your problems and solving them so well. I am very impressed with the way you are working your way through this project! Stop a minute, now. Slow down. Figure out this routing problem, and don't push forward until you've got that figured out. We are all pulling for you. You'll get it. I know you will! (And if I am missing something here, I apologize to all.)

Patrick


Thanks, Patrick. I appreciate the support. FWIW I'm working in a friend's shop who's in the middle of his fourth build so he was offering me some advice, not all of it good. We're both learning, though at different stages.

In the case of that second picture of the binding channel, I think I understand the concern but I think it will be fine. Here's why: the top wasn't cut flush to the sides when I attempted to rout out the shallower channel for the purfling with a laminate trimmer so the spacer bearing didn't have a smooth surface to follow. When I realized what was happening I opted to just do the outer channel instead because the spacer on the bit would be hitting the side so that it would also take care of the remnants of the plate's excess. I think that came out well enough - there's no tearout which is relieving - and I should be in better shape to try that purfling channel again now that that overhang is finally taken care of. Even if I've cut away too much, everything should be even enough so that I'd just have to add an extra purfling strip.


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