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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Koa
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Jim, that's a bummer. But I'm convinced it's fixable. Get away from it for a little while and then work out several strategies. I would personally go for a new neck block with extensions an inch or so farther toward the tail under the top AND the bottom, coupled with a sliding dovetail joint. I wouldn't worry about sacrificing a little top flex, because if you can't keep the neck attached, then top flexing will be a moot point.

A block like that will be tricky to fit because the top and back are already contoured. But it wouldn't be impossible. Or you might try a tapered, squared, through-dowel as in some banjo designs, but you've probably got quite a bit more string tension at work (and not nearly as beefy a rim) as on a typical banjo.

There's a solution to this and I want you to find it. It's a pretty cool concept for an instrument and I'm eager for you to have a successful outcome.
Patrick


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Some good options to consider. I hope you don't give up on it, even if you can't get it done in the next week. It's a cool idea and I hope you'll try to fix it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:07 pm 
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DennisK wrote:
Oh wait, it was already glued? Is there even a bolt at all? It looks like a straight tenon, so I just assumed.

Another style of permanent joint you could do is dowel pins. Glue the tenon back in, and drill holes through the back, toward the fingerboard, to where they cut half way into the tenon and half way into the headblock. Then glue in tightly fitting dowels. Ervin Somogyi does that one in his book, although drilling from the top side before gluing the fingerboard on so there are no holes visible.

Then you could glue that brace connecting the heel cap to the back, and make it wide enough to cover the holes. Or even just inlay a thin piece of wood (something really strong like ipe or African blackwood) into the heel cap and back to connect them. But only at about half the thickness of the back itself, or you'd be removing back->headblock glue area when routing for the inlay.


Dennis . I use a tennon and glue joint , then a Drywall screw to suck it down tight while it dries . I leave the drywall screw in after its set . So basically is Glued and screwed. Got the top off and the glue joint let go and broke the drywall screw . I am going to take the neck off tomorrow and change the headblock out . I am also going to Glue in another 1/8 or so strip around the inside to beef up the outside rim. Its only 1/8" now and is just to flimsy for the torque . New headblock and better neck joint and we should be in business .

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Beth Mayer wrote:
Some good options to consider. I hope you don't give up on it, even if you can't get it done in the next week. It's a cool idea and I hope you'll try to fix it.



Oh Yeah , im gonna see this one through , That I promise !

Thanks for all the input guys , good suggestions all .

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:07 pm 
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A bummer for sure. Make sure we get to hear it when you get it fixed.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:33 am 
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That's strange. I'm surprised it would let go like that. Dove tails are superior for obvious reasons but still an M/T joint should be good to go. What kind of glue did you use and was it old? I like the dowel idea that Dennis suggested. That ought to last a life time. Anyway sorry about your misfortune but you'll get it back together and when you do post videos because I think we are all curious how this unique little one will sound.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:04 am 
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Well that just stinks. I hope you can work out the issues. Too bad you wont be able to do it in time for the judging though.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:41 am 
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Tony_in_NYC wrote:
Well that just stinks. I hope you can work out the issues. Too bad you wont be able to do it in time for the judging though.



While I am thinking the repair through I thought I would ask , If I ship it out there , would you punch it inna face and ship it back ? laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:50 am 
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Hey Wud - try using a #8 wood screw. Drywall screws don't have much holding power, and they are very brittle, thats why they are so inexpensive. A #8 pan head with a coarse thread will hold much better. Best of luck getting this fixed - it's a nice looking instrument!

Alex

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:47 am 
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Along with Alex's comment I'll add that the drywall screw was screwed into endgrain. That further reduces it's holding power (especially if the tennon was thin). Check and see if the screw didn't pull wood out with it.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:52 am 
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Bryan Bear wrote:
Along with Alex's comment I'll add that the drywall screw was screwed into endgrain. That further reduces it's holding power (especially if the tennon was thin). Check and see if the screw didn't pull wood out with it.


The drywall screws purpose is to maintain the torque till the glue joint sets , its not for holding power . It works well on the Mandolins , as for pulled grain No it didnt , it was however just a poor design for the amount of torque applied .

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Why is it that , when a glue joint fails and it requires removing another glue joint . The second one holds like a freekin weld ???? [headinwall] gaah laughing6-hehe

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:08 pm 
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Murphy laughing6-hehe

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:01 pm 
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Doh! I like the idea of treating it like an old time banjo neck into metal rod traversing the body.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:10 am 
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I am having a bliss and a [headinwall] moment at the same time today . After pulling my work apart to determine what the issue was , I was Vindicated and felt duh at the same time .


My glue joint held ! bliss

HOWEVER when a person glues to a plywood rim that is veneered , [headinwall] all the holding power you have is the veneer duh

I am confidant now , that , a future build with a solid wood rim and this design will in fact hold up well !

I am repairing this one to work , as my prototype it wont be going anywhere , however , future builds will be made of solid wood !

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Like!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:07 pm 
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It seems since I have a Major sinus infection and am some what contagious , my family decided in the other state that maybe I should stay home ....... Buncha Chickens !! soooooooooooo That means I have some time between meds and nap to work on the Mandola ..

We shall see , Doubt I will finish , so dont wait up for me , but I still wanna get a vid of her at least tuned and holding ... ;)

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:22 pm 
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So you understand of course that the payment for my vote is non-refundable. I belive that is covered under section 12 paragraph 7 of the Cook County and Chicago Vote Purchasing Contract.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:28 pm 
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StevenWheeler wrote:
So you understand of course that the payment for my vote is non-refundable. I belive that is covered under section 12 paragraph 7 of the Cook County and Chicago Vote Purchasing Contract.

Wait, he paid you for your vote!?!
He blackmailed me!
I just assumed he camped out and got incriminating photos of all of us. Steven must lead a cleaner life than I do. . .

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:08 pm 
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%&^^&^&& Contracts ! :evil:

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:25 pm 
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Ah ha! Eureka!

I thought it sounded strange that an M/T joint would fail like that and so soon. So shoot some CA in that sucker and record a video real quick. It will at least get your entry in :)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Wud,
I'm sure you can find a way to get this fixed, even if you have to open it up and add a bolt or something.
I had the bridge on the Smiley-Uke fly off last weekend, a day before it was supposed to be shipped to japan. It's just a delay.
This mando will sing eventually. Hang in there...you'll find that solution. It's lookin' great otherwise.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:01 pm 
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deck screws and a 2x4 should hold it laughing6-hehe

Seriously, try and get it fixed. I just got over the worst cold I've had in 5 or 6 years - you can do it [:Y:]

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:03 pm 
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No, man. Your body is a laminated, veneered resonator. The more I think about it, the more I think you need a tapered, squared dowel stick--bearing against some beefy neck and tail blocks, because your resonator isn't as strong as a banjo rim would be. Or at least put a real beefy neck block in there and then use the M/T or sliding dovetail joint of your preference. Well...you'll get it figured out in your own time, to your own satisfaction. I'm sure sorry it went south on you. But don't give up.
Patrick


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:28 pm 
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cphanna wrote:
No, man. Your body is a laminated, veneered resonator. The more I think about it, the more I think you need a tapered, squared dowel stick--bearing against some beefy neck and tail blocks, because your resonator isn't as strong as a banjo rim would be. Or at least put a real beefy neck block in there and then use the M/T or sliding dovetail joint of your preference. Well...you'll get it figured out in your own time, to your own satisfaction. I'm sure sorry it went south on you. But don't give up.
Patrick



we are on same page my friend ...

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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