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Wud's Build FINISHED ( Video Added 2-3-13 )
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10133&t=37197		 Page 5 of 8
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
While I am spraying Laq . I am setting up to cut the saddle insert for the bridge . A good Drill press and a Good crossslide vise make the job sooooo much easier. [:Y:]

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Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Works just as good as a milling machine.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Neck and Box Mounted . Sprayed laq on back to check color match . Looks good to me . Now to blue on top and finish spraying .

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Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Nice looking burst Wud!
Author:  WudWerkr [ Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Tony_in_NYC wrote:
Nice looking burst Wud!



Thanks...... I like " Bursted Wud" laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
Author:  WudWerkr [ Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
And The Box Is Closed !

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Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Yep, the burst looks good. Lookin forward to seeing how it sounds.
Author:  Shane Woonton [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
The burst is beautiful! Wish I had some spray equipment.... and somewhere to spray.... and knew how to spray.... :(

I'm looking forward to hearing this mandojogogo thingy. Wondering if it will be more man than jo?? :?

Shane
Author:  WudWerkr [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Decided on a Satin Finish . The neck matches quite well I think and Here I am dong some simple Laq por fill on a couple spots .

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Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Wud, I can't believe you let your instruments sleep on pillows - mine only get a towel :lol:
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
SteveSmith wrote:
Wud, I can't believe you let your instruments sleep on pillows - mine only get a towel :lol:


laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

I found using old pillows to be helpfull when working with new finish . And , Im Cheap . LOL
Author:  WudWerkr [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
I am making the Bridge for this build out of the same material as the fretboard. It will have a bone saddle insert .

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3/32" slot cut with my Drill Press and My Handy Dandy cross slide vise and a 3/32" Mill Bit
Author:  StevenWheeler [ Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Looking good Jim. You better hurry up or I might finish a 5th insturment for the challenge before you're done.

Steve
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
StevenWheeler wrote:
Looking good Jim. You better hurry up or I might finish a 5th insturment for the challenge before you're done.

Steve




you know they make meds for adhd pfft laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe JK
Author:  WudWerkr [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build $1.00 Cover charge !
Some time spent on nut and saddle this past week , about to start the string slots , and setting saddle height .

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Author:  WudWerkr [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build Ready to Tune
The wudwerk part is all done , so basically I'm finished . I have set the string height and will intonate and tune tomorrow . Its supposed to be a satin finish , wanted it to have a rustic "older" look . Please dont point out ALL the uffdahs , I can already see them gaah laughing6-hehe I know there are builds in this challenge that put me to shame , but it was still fun to get in the mix .

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YES I KNOW THE BRIDGE IS CROOKED !! pfft laughing6-hehe

If you vote for me , Thank you . But I fully understand if you dont ... Heck , I doubt That I will even vote for me ! laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build Ready to Tune
Hey Wud, I like it - nice job! I won't point out your uffdahs if you don't point out mine ;)
Author:  Beth Mayer [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build Ready to Tune
Cool, Wud! Very unique and can't wait to hear it. Eat Drink
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Challenge Build Ready to Tune
Thanks everyone , My main concern is if the neck at the body is gonna hold or start pulling apart . we shall see. ANNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDD Im OUT.


Yep , neck Body Joint didnt hold , was tuning her up and as I got close I heard a pop :shock: and saw movement , gaah sure enough the heel is seperating from the body . So back to the drawing board as it were.

Not giving up on idea , just need to refine it some apparently .

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String Height went from .090 at the 12th to .200 in one loud "pop" and the heel has pulled away about 1/16" from the body ... Hard to tell in these pics . " Ohh Well " idunno , If this is worst thing thats gonna happen , I can deal with it.
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Build I'm OUT , She didn't hold at neck body joint !
Dang, hate to see people drop at the last minute. Can you tell exactly what happened? Is the headblock still glued to both the top and back? Is the bolt fully tight? Did the headblock split? Is it just the upper cheeks of the heel denting into the sides/bindings, allowing the lower cheeks to pull up a bit? If that's the case, you may just need a quick neck reset, since it should only dent in so far before it settles.

Probably related to the shallow body depth, and the resulting fact of the bolt not being very far down from the soundboard so it has next to no leverage against the neck, unlike on a guitar where the heel is pretty deep and acts like a lever arm for the lower bolt. So, a little bit of compression into the sides/bindings, or of the bolt into the headblock, makes a large angular difference on the neck. But if you adjust the heel cheeks to match the shape of the sides, and keep snugging down the bolt, it will hopefully settle... or split the headblock.

I think a violin style glued dovetail would be the best joint for this job, if you had a heel button on the back. The heel button glue joint would have about twice the leverage of your bolt, plus the whole dovetail endgrain surface making contact with the headblock is much less likely to dent from the compressive force than a small heel cheek-to-binding contact area.

Or of course an integral neck would be the strongest of all.

And if you can't fix it properly, you may as well try some duct tape fixes before going back to the drawing board :) Maybe glue a hardwood shim in the mortise, that makes contact with the tenon endgrain, mainly at the top edge (right under the fingerboard) to give more compression-resisting surface area. And if it still pulls up, make shims from a slightly more compressible wood (mahogany maybe) for the sides of the tenon, to where it fits tightly in the mortise, with focus on the low end being tight. Then glue it, thus giving you some attachment of the neck to the headblock right near the back, for more leverage on the tension force. Sort of a substitute for the violin style heel button.

Never give up until all options are exhausted [:Y:]
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Build I'm OUT , She didn't hold at neck body joint !
That’s a real drag! There is still time though, please try to fix it. I can’t tell form the pics is the heel cracked? Or did things just shift around? What type of bolt did you use? Does it look like the rim has distorted? Where exactly is the failure?
Author:  nyazzip [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Build I'm OUT , She didn't hold at neck body joint !
Quote:
Probably related to the shallow body depth, and the resulting fact of the bolt not being very far down from the soundboard so it has next to no leverage against the neck, unlike on a guitar where the heel is pretty deep and acts like a lever arm for the lower bolt.

i was just thinking the same...principals of leverage at work
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Build I'm OUT , She didn't hold at neck body joint !
Simply not enough meat to hold the neck at that point . I am going to check my glue and see that I did get a good glue joint . I thought I did , but could be wrong .

Basic Ideas Im kicking around are ,

( 1 ) remove the back and install a rod from neck to heel block through body .

( 2 ) Make a spacer that fits under the fretboard extension to allow the top to accept some of the tension . "not crazy about that cause it could kill some of the top flex"

( 3 ) Make a brace that ties in the heel and over laps the back for added strength . same width as heel and overlaps the back 4" or so and tapers to a point .
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Build I'm OUT , She didn't hold at neck body joint !
Bryan Bear wrote:
That’s a real drag! There is still time though, please try to fix it. I can’t tell form the pics is the heel cracked? Or did things just shift around? What type of bolt did you use? Does it look like the rim has distorted? Where exactly is the failure?


No nothing cracked , leverage at work . the glue joint basically failed .

bryan , im leaving town sat and will be gone a a week, so just not gonna be enough time to get it fixed.

While I was tuning it , I was quite impressed with the amount of volume it had . it was better than I expected really.
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wud's Build I'm OUT , She didn't hold at neck body joint !
Oh wait, it was already glued? Is there even a bolt at all? It looks like a straight tenon, so I just assumed.

Another style of permanent joint you could do is dowel pins. Glue the tenon back in, and drill holes through the back, toward the fingerboard, to where they cut half way into the tenon and half way into the headblock. Then glue in tightly fitting dowels. Ervin Somogyi does that one in his book, although drilling from the top side before gluing the fingerboard on so there are no holes visible.

Then you could glue that brace connecting the heel cap to the back, and make it wide enough to cover the holes. Or even just inlay a thin piece of wood (something really strong like ipe or African blackwood) into the heel cap and back to connect them. But only at about half the thickness of the back itself, or you'd be removing back->headblock glue area when routing for the inlay.
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