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 Post subject: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hey everybody my name is Sean.
I started my first build starting on the 17th of May.
Its been challenging but educational.
I read from http://www.amazon.com/Step-By-Step-Guitar-Making-Alex-Willis/dp/156523331X/ref=sr_sp-btf_title_2_26?ie=UTF8&qid=1384887907&sr=8-26&keywords=guitar+making+books that book and went from there.
Everything is self built other then, the machine tuners, the tross rod, the nut, the saddle and now the ribs.
Which brings my question!

I've had a hard time bending, I bought a LMI Bending Iron and its clamped to the bench.
The first two rib blanks I built from plywood grade mahogany of about 1/16 I think part of the reason that they cracked is because the grain was horizontal and not vertical. oops_sign
I bought a pair of Mahogany ribs (The real stuff) from a local luthier whose been really helpful.
Drives a hard bargain but is really knowledgeable, some of you might know him since hes been crafting for 40 years.
Didn't really want to be found, runs a shop called Enderby Instruments.

Anyway I've built a side molding and I have a half finished molding enclosure.
What I'm worried about is breaking these ribs too, since I paid a bit for them.
I was wondering along with soaking the wood, how often should I spray with the water again before making another pass on the iron?
I've read some stuff about free handing but if I don't do it fast enough and glue the kerf and the rib to the sb won't it rubberband?
If it weren't for those ribs breaking on me I'd like to say Id have been finished two months ago.

Tried to post a pic but it wouldn't accept the upload.

Thanks for any suggestions!
-Sean


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:52 am
Posts: 1388
First name: Zeke
Last Name: McKee
City: Goodlettsville
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37070
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The sides should be fine to sit a bit before gluing to the soundboard and the back. Especially if you have them clamped in a mold. The mold will assure that they remain the proper shape until you are ready to close the box. As far as the bending process it's kind of something that you learn by experience. You don't want to over soak the wood but you want to assure that it has enough moisture to create steam and bend.


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks I suppose experience is the best teacher anyway.
Glad I did not start with a cutaway otherwise it would have been complete hell.
I know to start from the waist but even with pencil markings I have a hard time eyeing the curves on the upper bout and lower bout.
Thats another thing I should ask, after the waist would I go lower bout or upper bout?
What I found with the previous blanks used is that going to the upper bout or lower bout would counter any bending i did on the middle.
Granted at that time I was using the solera with threaded rods to keep the ribs clamped.


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:22 pm 
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First name: Rodger
Last Name: Knox
City: Baltimore
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21234
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
If you really had the sides down to 1/16" thickness, they should have bent easily. The two most common mistakes are too thick or not enough heat. The amount of water depends on the wood, some species need a lot of moisture and others bend best almost dry.
You may not have the iron hot enough, a drop of water should "dance" when you drip it on the iron. I turn mine up all the way for about 5 minutes or so, and once it's hot I turn it down to about 75%.
When the wood gets hot enough, it will "go plastic" and bend with almost no pressure. It's easy to tell when this happens, even the first time.
When it doubt, try more heat, unless you are already scorching it!
Quartersawn or flatsawn doesn't make much difference when bending, but runout can make bending very difficult.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:34 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hey Roger I will try that probably should write it down too.
I think it was the wood selection though because it is actually three pieces of wood glued together like a plywood.
Still it does go plastic but I can't seem to get that almost V shape from the waist.
Maybe there is a bigger problem that I didn't consider, maybe the curves on my soundboard are in too much?
I'll try to upload some pics to photobucket for you tomorrow so you can see what I'm talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:12 am
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First name: Rodger
Last Name: Knox
City: Baltimore
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21234
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Johnnyonthespot wrote:
I think it was the wood selection though because it is actually three pieces of wood glued together like a plywood.
Still it does go plastic but I can't seem to get that almost V shape from the waist.


That's your problem, plywood doesn't bend very well, even at 1/16" thick. The layer on the inside of the bend needs to get shorter and the layer on the outside of the bend needs to get longer...
See how it goes with solid wood.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hey sorry I haven't posted pics just yet.
I haven't had internet in months to save on costs so I would've posted sooner.
It turns out I was using the iron incorrectly I followed this tutorial.
I wish I knew before hand that this is the correct way to bend.
Before hand I was actually running it back and forth quickly I should've known that the wood doesn't need any friction as the iron itself is hot enough to bend it.
oops_sign

With that epiphany its pretty dang easy! :)
Still need to finish up on the side molding before using the good mahogany stuff.

Thanks for the advice too it worked like a charm!

-Sean


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:38 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Finally got around to putting pics up so you can see where I'm at with it.
Both ribs are now pretty close to the curves wondering if I can glue the kerf on even though I have a little more bending to do it seems.
The neck is redwood, its a harder wood to work with because it flakes when planing but still somewhat doable.
Going to carve the rest of the neck round after I have the ribs and backplate on.

http://s128.photobucket.com/user/TheCabl3guy/library/Projects


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:52 am
Posts: 1388
First name: Zeke
Last Name: McKee
City: Goodlettsville
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37070
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
You are going to want your sides to be completely bent to the shape you want before gluing the kerfing. In fact you will want the sides to be attached to the neck block and tail block as well before the kerfing is installed.

I took a look at your pics and it appears to me your soundboard is severely overbraced. What are the dimensions of your braces? Also are you following any sort of plan or guide?


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:07 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Yes I actually am following the schematic that came with the book cited in the original post.
Its based on a OM Treble O I really should have read from another book the grammar errors should of been red flags.
It did get my feet just wet enough but not enough to swim.

Still followed the schematic as closely as I could, just measured they are quarter inch thick on the x- braces, the wing braces could probably be reduced they are a little less then that, not sure how all that will effect the overall tone.
Before I forget I added these little strips of lining onto the x-braces because there were gaps in between.
I see some luthier's have holes in there in x-braces but I didn't see that before I started on them.

The luthier in town mentioned something about a "lispy" sound from not being able to project out the soundhole.
Also the idea about getting the ribs on the neck and the endblock makes so much more sense!
I'm glad I thought of it! ;)

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:36 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Well sigh...now the soundboard came off the neck.
Its my fault really I couldn't carve out a perfect fit for the a-braces so only one side was really being supported.
I have to rethink my neck and probably the soundboard too.
I think thats gonna be the nail in the coffin for the year though.
Sucks because I put a lot of work into all that and really now I have less to show for it then when I started.
I use hide glue so I suppose if I need to get those braces off I could put some steamed water to reverse it?


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:43 pm
Posts: 10
First name: Sean
Last Name: Canavan
City: Marina
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 93933
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Well trying to resume work with new mats, bought this mahogany neck + Rosewood Fretboard from the same luthier.
Question is if you look in the photos do I have enough for the headblock?
You can see where I marked in with pencil for the tenon, the markings on the side are almost exactly two inches in.
Looks to me that if I saw it from there I'll have a short curve where the V on the neck would have to be chiseled, carved, etc../
Maybe I should just get a separate block for the head?

Thanks again,

-Sean

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: First Time Builder
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:09 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 12:45 pm
Posts: 644
First name: Lonnie
Last Name: Barber
City: Manchester
State: Tennessee
Zip/Postal Code: 37355
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi Sean: Lonnie here. I too have never built a guitar. Twenty five years ago I built three four string mandolins. I've done some repair and restoration. Looking forward to my first guitar build. I am building a baritone Ukelele. Almost finished with it. I have another Uke promised so don't know if I'll start the guitar and Uke and build together. That's probably what will happen. Anyway good luck with your build. Please keep us informed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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