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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
It's a Monarch, imported by Carl Fisher if I remember right. Story was that they quit building them in 1959. This one is a bit strange. It's the same outline as a classical, but a little thinner. A zero fret, no truss rod that I can tell, but the slotted head has steel string thin 'rollers'. The neck is sad, twisted and bent. The top has quite a belly below the bridge which I don't believe was original, was pulling up and had been glued down with I dunno, some sort of glue that's filling in missing wood in the top. It's got quite a bit of a different color glue inside around the headstock. The funny thing is, the mahogony on the arched back and sides looks almost pristine, so I'm guessing refinished. I didn't pay much, figuring I could use it to learn how to get a neck off. Then I started thinking..rather than building my first kit acoustic guitar, couldn't I fit a bolt on neck, and try and replace the top with a cedar one? If this is too stupid, I still wanna get the neck off as a learning experience, and will need to ask some questions as I try to figure that out. Roy, (but my brother calls me stubborn)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:05 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Having trouble posting pix rather than links from smugmug...
Image
Image

Mebbe that's working...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:09 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Image


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:29 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4108
Location: Western VA, no not West VA
In the 90's when I got started building and repairing I would find old junkers like that and re-top them, remove the necks and so on. I think it's a fine way to go about learning. The only pitfalls is that you might not learn about some more traditional repairs. Like for example it might not be a dovetail neck, rather one that is just doweled in place. BUt you could do a sawed off bolt on conversion too.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:08 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Thanks for the encouragement. It's a 12 fret neck. I pulled the 13th fret and tried drilling a coupla holes, but I did not feel the drill break into any open space. Should I have been at the 14th fret instead? I see no bolts or truss rod inside, not sure what type mount it really has. Roy


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1651
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hard to tell from your pictures but could it be a Spanish heel? If so the neck ain't coming off.

Also some times you need to tilt the bit - I just took the neck off a harmony and I had to drill at an angle towards the heel to find the pocket.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:27 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Never heard of a spanish heel, googled it and not sure, although the 'heel' (Not so great with luthier correct terms) had a wood screw going into what I suppose is the heel block inside the guitar, which looks like a solid block from the inside view. That's where a hole mess of yellow looking glue is when the purfling is all white glue making me think this is a previous repair. This was never an expensive guitar methinks. So, by angling toward the heel, that means more toward the fretboard side of the guitar? I tried that a bit, but not very agressively. Will give it another try tomorrow.Thanks for inputs. Sorry I don't know all the right terms yet. I have some books, but not with me right now.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:58 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Just looked inside a classical I have that was made in Spain...it has a curved heel block that looks like the pix of a spanish heel I googled, which is definitely not what is inside the Monarch. Learned something new today.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:18 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Neckterectomy wildly successful, largely due to Mister Coffee and my wife's iron. Funny how little I know, like exactly where I should have been drilling. It is a dovetail. I'd never actually understood how the sides are angled. Seems like I only learn by doing, and trying not to make the same mistake twice.
Pix tomorrow, when my hot spot data resets. Right now I'm at dial up speeds. I need to study up on how to rout off a top. If I can do that successfully this patient might actually have a chance. Roy


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:56 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1651
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Roy, I know lots of good builders got their start by doing repairs but I think building from scratch is infinitely easier. Virgin wood, the right glues, no prior repairs, able to do things in the proper order, yadda yadda. I do repairs when I have to and cuss every one of them. Good luck with this, I'll be rooting for you.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Actually, my brother told me exactly the same thing. He built a few guitars for the family when he was actually building mandolins. I have two of them, one is my favorite guitar. But I am pretty stubborn, coupled with being fairly cheap. So for now I'm just trying to get enough confidence behind me to think about doing an acoustic kit, plus I need to learn something about the fixtures and tools I may not have. If ok I have another question or two. Turns out I have an old nylon guitar that was made for me in the Phillipines in 1967. Top is cracked all to hell, so I'll have two tops to practice routing. Looking inside, I thought it was a spanish heel, so I figured it was a good candidate for a bolt on conversion. After cutting the neck off, I think I was mistaken and it's probably a dovetail. I'll post a couple pix, but my first question is how do I really tell a spanish heel? It is all hide glue, so it's a shame I didn't just heat it off.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:30 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 35
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
This guitar is sorta interesting. The kerfing is all bamboo. I guess the top went on after the neck?
Image
The neck nut is 47 mm, a width I really like as I have fat fingers. Howsomever, the heel looks a bit thin for the insert nuts a bolt on will need.
Image
But I'm a long way from that. It never sounded very good, although I didn't realize it at 19; I'd never tried to play a guitar before. I see it has ladder bracing on the top. I need to study up on how best to brace the new top for better sound. If I could get it to sound decent, I'd like to play it again. Got no idea what the back and side wood really is. Again... planning a cedar top. Most of the guitars I've played that sound half as good as my D28 kit have cedar tops. Roy


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