I might be able to help. Email me at johann@brentrup.com and we'll see.
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| Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=49116 |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Attachment: purfling.jpg Hello, Looking for some ideas on binding for this restoration project. I have an existing ledge of just under 4.5mm with no samples of what was original to the guitar. All I seem to be able to find is 1.5mm thick binding. I was thinking of just using 3 pieces in a BWB or WBW configuration but I am concerned that the ledge is a bit inconsistent and when I scrape level with the side it may be noticeably thin in some areas. I was hoping to find a thicker binding so the ledge width inconsistency would not be as noticeable but I have had no luck. I can't rerout the ledge as it would cut into the purfling in some areas. I am also missing about 8" of purfling which is a more standard width of .080" but a non standard pattern. Any of you restoration people have any advice? Thanks in advance, Bill |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Very pretty. Tell us more about that nice little guitar. |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
This is a P. Benson guitar made approx 1900. I picked this up in pieces, neck off, Back half off and many cracks. I am heading out now but I will post more pics later this evening. Thanks for your interest. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
I might be able to help. Email me at johann@brentrup.com and we'll see.
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| Author: | JoeM [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
I really like the details I see in both the guitars pictured. I have one guitar (my second) on the bench to make the fretboard today, and finalize the neck. Im starting to think about what I want in the next one I build, and I feel like I want to incorporate some cool flash in binding / purfling. I'd love to see more. |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Here are some more pics of this guitar in the condition I received it in. I will attach more of my progress pics as I go. |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
And a few more, I absolutely love these tuners. |
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| Author: | John Lewis [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
That's a pretty little guitar. I've got an old Washburn parlor guitar circa 1910 with similar specs and similar problems. Good luck - I look forward to seeing more of the restoration. |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Well I have been making some good progress. here are some photos |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
I also did a little research. very excited to find this original catalog entry from 1905. |
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| Author: | Johny [ Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Amazing. Was it originally ladder braced? |
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| Author: | Haans [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
I had the good fortune of having Bill over on Saturday with the instrument. It is undoubtedly the pinnacle of the "Benson line". Since, I have seen photos of lesser but in better shape instruments. Bill had already re-glued the back on the ribs with fish glue, probably a very wise decision as ribs distort quickly, however he said the back could come off easily again. First and foremost, the instrument has a remarkable likeness to Larson design. I cannot be sure of the second X brace and the large patch between that X and the tailblock is rude. So is the WAY oversize bridge plate that looks to be IR. The front and back soundhole re-inforcements are also rude, and not original in my view. The front short block between the 1st UTB and the nose block is an obvious addition in my book, and the popsicle is questionable. Most of the time it was either 2 UTB's or a popsicle... Most notable in the photos is the ultra wide spread of the main X, VERY Larson. Very odd that the small wing braces run the "wrong" way. It will be an extreme challenge for Bill, and we talked about how to and how much to restore it without going overboard. Better to probably do no harm, but get it playable. Good luck Bill! |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
First I want to say what a pleasure it was to meet Hans and his wife. He was gracious enough to take a part of his day yesterday to review my project and give me his thoughts and advice. Hans had a great deal of pertinent information as well as some contacts for some specialty materials which I am grateful to have on this restoration. Now that I have things stabilized and have less concerns about further deterioration taking place, I think the next step is to get that back off again and clean up some of the issues Hans mentioned above as they will rob this instrument of its tone and projection. I will post some photos when I get there. Thanks again Hans! Bill J |
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| Author: | Johny [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
I'll be following along for sure. Thank you for posting. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Cool ol guitar. And I agree, the tuner buttons are very cool! |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
OK, Here is a good one. As you can see in the photos the old French polish on this guitar is in rough shape. I have a bit of experience in french polish so I thought I could get it back into shape by spiriting but this french polish was so old it hardly even softened it. I was convinced my only choices would be to totally strip the old finish and start over or leave the finish in the terrible condition you see in the photos above. Neither choice was very attractive. I noticed when I removed the back I applied some heat with a rubber strip heater and it seemed to clear up the finish. So I decided to try a heat gun. Check out the results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaXajiJ0GEs&t=3s Better than I could have imagined. The cracks on the back are all sealed up and now I have the original French Polish on its way back to being acceptable. Still trying to find some extra wide Ivoroid. If anyone has any secret suppliers let me know. I need .175" wide X .135" tall ivoroid binding. Not having any luck. I have a few options I am looking at but none seem too promising. One thing at a time. Bill |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Wow the heat gun results look terrific. Nice little guitar. Did Hans say what he thought the back and sides where? |
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| Author: | John J [ Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Very neat results. I wonder what is happening to the finish to do that under heat? And will it last? |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Hi Bob, Hans confirmed my belief that this is Brazilian Rosewood back and sides. John, I believe the cause of the cloudiness was moisture trapped in the shellac, probably from being stored in overly warm & humid conditions. The heat allows the moisture to escape and clarify the finish. I filmed this nearly a month ago and no signs of any cloudiness regenerating. I am confident this is a permanent fix assuming proper storage and maintenance is practiced. Thanks for your interest guys. I am almost done replacing the missing pearl and abalone on the body. I will post more pics soon. Bill |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Holy cow that heat gun fix is brilliant. I never would have thought to do that. I've got an old SS Stewart that could use such a treatment. That's a beautiful instrument, and yeah those tuners are spectacular. Do you suspect that double X bracing is original? |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Hope the heat gun trick works for you jfmckenna. I am not sure on the originality of the lower x bracing. Based on the markings on the sound board and the patina on the wood, if its not original it has been there a long time. I have removed the ridiculously oversized cleat and bridge plate, now I need to decide what to do with the bracing. I am leaning towards leaving it. As I really do think this configuration is original. we will see. Bill |
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| Author: | Haans [ Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
I talked to Ron over at St Paul Guitar Repair and he said he had worked on 10-15 Bensons over the years and all he ever saw was ladder or ladder/angled V bracing. Never saw a double X. There is so much glue slopped all over inside that it's hard to say what's going on there. Some of it looks like yellow glue. It's not new except for the ridiculous brigde plate, but could be an addition. Even the obvious additions like the whole upper brace scheme and sound hole bracing look old. I mean, 2 UTB's, a popsicle, and half a 2X4? Please... There seems to be some heavy sanding inside from the photo too. Who knows... |
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| Author: | Dieguy [ Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Vintage Parlor Guitar Restoration |
Well, here is a photo of the inside minus the bridge plate and the U-shaped cleat on the lower bout. I had a little tear out at the bvottom of the bridge pin holes which I chiseled smooth and applied the patch as seen in the photo. You can see the footprint of what I would assume is the original bridge plate. The bottom U-shaped cleat was adhered with Hide Glue. The bridge plate was yellow Glue ((ughh! that was a bit of a fight)) All of the yellow glue inside appears to be the same so I assume this was all slopped on at the time the bridge plate was added. Not sure if the braces were all reglued and the squeeze out was just not cleaned up, or if the yellow glue was just spread along the sides of the braces thinking it was resupporting them. From how it looks I am guessing the latter. Trying to decide how far to take it on the inside. I have a new maple bridgeplate made to the original footprint. I will recleat the center seam and a few cracks with some more typically sized and shaped spruce cleats. The top definitely opened up a bit sound wise when the plate and cleat came out. That is not saying much, it sounded like you were tapping on a 2 x 6 before, which I think Hans will attest to. It still doesn't resonate much but I dont want to damage anything trying to improve the tone. We will see, Bill |
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