Official Luthiers Forum!

Solely owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:19 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:53 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1389
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Chowlie wrote:
Do you really think gluing the frets is necessary? And in this case, fretting after the f/b went on was a must so I could plane it flat first.



Different people do different things. Some use HHG or AR or nothing, I have used thin CA on every board I've fretted. On new unbound boards I'll hammer/press the frets in, then wick some thin CA into the end gap to both fill it and to hold the fret in place. I have never had a failure and I can pull frets that have CA on them as easily as nothing with a little heat. I also make the assumption that anyone working on a guitar that I worked on knows to use heat, but I know that might not be true. There are a few exceptions - Fender maple necks, Fenders with the side pushed frets, Gibsons with the nibs.

As far as fretting off the neck, I make the assumption that my neck is dead flat before I glue the board on. When I fret the board it usually takes a very slight back bow (that would have helped counter the bow you experienced) but when I clamp it down it goes flat. I level after I've glued it on but frankly there is almost no leveling required. Obviously on a refret where the neck and f/b are on the guitar I have to work with what I've got but if I have a choice its off the guitar.

I also prefer to press the frets in, but again, I can't do that when the f/b is on because I can't support it. I use the quill of my drill press (which isn't designed for this but I haven't bought an arbor press, yet)

Image

As I say, lots of ways


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:39 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
This week's latest updates:

End nippers ground down flat

Image

New toothy-looking saddles from Bob

Image

$16 bulk fretwire bender I got from eBay - very nice contraption! I'm very glad I went with the uncut wire just for using this.

Image

Image

I might still put a bit more radius on it just to get the ends down as tight as possible.

Image

And more supplies from LMI. Royal-Lac, bridge red dye, binding for the repair near the soundhole, a block of ebony to make dust for repairing the fretboard chips, pipettes, and a 3-corner dressing file.
I think I've just about settled on stripping the neck and refinishing just that area.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:12 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 834
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
FWIW I like to slightly over bend my wire, not under bend it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



These users thanked the author rlrhett for the post: dpetrzelka (Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:58 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:08 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Lots of progress has been made! Eager to share the details.

Binding cut away where it was short

Image

Image

Hardly noticeable.

Image

The frets went it without too much trouble, but it did take the first five or so to get the swing of things. I eventually went back and replaced a couple of the first ones I did. I got a bit overboard with the super glue, but it cleaned up pretty easily with some acetone on a rag. I'm satisfied with how the frets turned out, especially being my first time. I held a 1-2-3 block under the F/B extension to knock those frets in. After they all went in I used my beam with some sandpaper on it to level them out, then crowned them with my $7 eBay file, which I have to say did the job surprising well. I have some polishing to do, but I feel like that would still be the case with a more expensive file.

Image

Image

Image

Found out that a steel rule with some stick-back sandpaper on it is pretty handy - leveling binding, chamfering fret ends, etc.

Image

The new oversized saddles, which gave me action around .130". Tall!

Image

One of the chips I filled with ebony dust and super glue. It has almost completely disappeared with a bit of lemon oil on it.

Image

Image

Now it's time for getting the action down to my spec. This is how I always shave saddles because I work in a machine shop. I put them in a grinding vise, indicate them flat, then take off exactly the amount I need.

Image

The radius didn't match exactly, so I scribed a line and altered it.

Image

Image

After all that I have action right about .080" low E and .060" high E. Perfect for me! And not a single buzz to be found anywhere. Couldn't be happier with it.

Image

The new saddles are definitely tall, but not so much that it's extremely obvious.

Image

Now it's on to finishing up the less important things like neck finish and fret polishing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:38 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1389
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Good job. Its been a long road but congratulations on sticking with it.



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Chowlie (Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:17 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:43 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Freeman wrote:
Good job. Its been a long road but congratulations on sticking with it.


Thanks, Freeman. Your help has been invaluable throughout this whole process! I seriously appreciate all the time and effort you've given to helping me out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:19 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
This week's update:

Got some wood filler in the soundhole and on the side of the neck.

Image

Image

Polished up the frets and cleaned the ends.

Image

Moved on to some finishing

Image

I basically mixed my Trans Tint and Royal Lac about 50/50 to keep it as dark as possible.

Image

Image

Image

About three coats in

Image

Image

It's tricky... and definitely not exact. I'm not expecting to get it perfect by any means, just "red" and smooth. As soon as I get the binding cleaned off I'll do some coats of clear over both the wood and binding.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:44 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
I'm finally to the point now where I'm calling it "finished." :D There are a couple small things I'll probably tinker on from time to time, but overall I think it's safe to say it's done.

I didn't end up putting more clear over the neck and binding, as it caused the red tint to streak. I just finely sanded the binding until all the red was removed, and left the rest as it is. About the best I could do was sand it with 2500 grit paper, and then try rubbing some Turtle Wax into it, which also caused the red dye to streak. I suppose I really need to get a buffing wheel of some kind in order to actually shine it up. Thoughts?

Here's the final product:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Once again, I'd like to give a huge thanks to everyone who advised me through this whole process. It's been quite an experience!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:56 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Coming back for a couple of small details...

As you can see here, the binding isn't completely flat against the top of the body. I'd like to make a putty of some kind to fill it in with, but chopping up binding material into tiny bits and leaving it in Acetone only made it soft, not gooey. Any tips for this?

Image

And I'd really like to get the refinished areas on the neck shiny like they should be, but any kind of polishing compound I use just removes the Royal Lac entirely. Would fine sanding down to 2500 grit or so and then following up with a polishing wheel on an angle grinder be an advisable way to do it?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:16 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1389
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Chowlie wrote:
The refinished areas on the neck shiny like they should be, but any kind of polishing compound I use just removes the Royal Lac entirely. Would fine sanding down to 2500 grit or so and then following up with a polishing wheel on an angle grinder be an advisable way to do it?


You have done a pretty amazing job on this and should be really proud of what you've done. My guess is that the Royal Lac simply isn't burning in to the original poly finish like it would with lacquer, therefore its going to come off with any big attempt to polish. I don't know any way around that - back when you started this whole project I questioned how well you would be able to touch up the finish. I would suggest sanding and polishing by hand, the wheel introduces a lot of heat which might not be good.

However, kudos on the whole project.



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Chowlie (Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:52 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:56 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Freeman wrote:
Chowlie wrote:
The refinished areas on the neck shiny like they should be, but any kind of polishing compound I use just removes the Royal Lac entirely. Would fine sanding down to 2500 grit or so and then following up with a polishing wheel on an angle grinder be an advisable way to do it?


You have done a pretty amazing job on this and should be really proud of what you've done. My guess is that the Royal Lac simply isn't burning in to the original poly finish like it would with lacquer, therefore its going to come off with any big attempt to polish. I don't know any way around that - back when you started this whole project I questioned how well you would be able to touch up the finish. I would suggest sanding and polishing by hand, the wheel introduces a lot of heat which might not be good.

However, kudos on the whole project.


Once again - thank you.

I don't think the issue lies with how well it adheres to the existing poly, but rather with how easy it is to dissolve any kind of shellac-based finish. It's really difficult to sand without removing it entirely, but there should be enough left to actually polish if my compound didn't just dissolve it immediately. How would you recommend hand-polishing it without a liquid compound of any sort?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:02 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1389
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Chowlie wrote:
I don't think the issue lies with how well it adheres to the existing poly, but rather with how easy it is to dissolve any kind of shellac-based finish. It's really difficult to sand without removing it entirely, but there should be enough left to actually polish if my compound didn't just dissolve it immediately. How would you recommend hand-polishing it without a liquid compound of any sort?


Some of the automotive polishing compounds are intended to be applied by hand. I mostly use Meguiars number two and three compounds with either a bench polisher or foam pads in a drill motor. The bench polisher does get a lot hotter - I would stay away from that or at least experiment before you take the guitar to it. Most of the time I wet sand to about 1500, then use the medium and fine compounds. I know people also use the micro mesh pads - you can get some very fine abrasives - but I haven't had much luck with them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:25 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 1840
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
I use Meguiars 105 compound a lot and occasionally apply it by hand. It works really fast.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:18 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Did some experimenting over the weekend and got something I like much better.

Image

First thing I did was tape off across most of the binding and where the top meets the crack. I layed in a bead of my FCA binding adhesive, rough sanded, then filled in with a couple more layers of super glue. Sanded down to 2500, then polished with simichrome.

And as you can probably tell, I'm still trying to blend the red coloring a bit better than it was. It IS better, but I'm just gonna keep working on it until I can live with it.

Image

I was at Autozone for more sandpaper and picked up a bottle of Meguiars Ultimate Compound. This was the only thing they had that was even close.

Image

I thought maybe it would be close enough to what you guys recommended, but I don't think it is. Really isn't cutting much at all. I used my Simichrome on the top area and it cleaned up the 2500 grit marks really fast.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:44 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:31 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Central KY
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Figured out the best solution - wipe on poly. The Royal-Lac always came off entirely when I'd try to buff it, so I just got the color as close as I could and coated it with poly. Voila - best results yet. No sanding or polishing needed. It blended into the existing finish almost flawlessly.

Image

Image

This part still doesn't look the best but at least it's all level and with an even sheen.

Image

Also sold the nice preamp for $180 on eBay, then installed this older model I bought for $35. Great way to get some money back out of this thing.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:11 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 3710
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Ya done good.

_________________
Stop saying "How stupid can you get?" Too many people are taking it as a challenge!



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Chowlie (Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:14 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 66 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com