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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Trying to get some perspective. In your collective experiences, are Fender offset (jazzmaster, jaguar, mustang, etc.) guitars just buzzy? The break angle over the bridge is atrocious. Even using the mastery bridge/vibrato which is supposed to be the magic cure for these guitars, they always still seem buzzy to me. Not really anything that translates through amplification but still...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:42 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I helped put together a JagStang with a non Fender bridge (Kahler) and the guy liked it so much I'm doing two more right now. As you know the shorter scale means there is a lot less string tension (10 to 46 on a 25.5 scale is about 110 pounds, on a 24.0 its 96) so you may have to bump them up a size. My friend down tunes his Jagstangs two semi tones (I know, its totally wrong) but it works fine with 12's or 13's.

Also, one thing I have notices with his guitars (they are Warmoth parts-casters) is that the neck angle is slightly shallow - I find I need a half a degree of shim to get the Kahler bridge into its working range. (as I said, I've never worked on a Fender bridge)

Here are the two current ones with the bridges just sitting on top. Tomorrow's project....

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:48 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Freeman wrote:
I helped put together a JagStang with a non Fender bridge (Kahler) and the guy liked it so much I'm doing two more right now. As you know the shorter scale means there is a lot less string tension (10 to 46 on a 25.5 scale is about 110 pounds, on a 24.0 its 96) so you may have to bump them up a size. My friend down tunes his Jagstangs two semi tones (I know, its totally wrong) but it works fine with 12's or 13's.

Also, one thing I have notices with his guitars (they are Warmoth parts-casters) is that the neck angle is slightly shallow - I find I need a half a degree of shim to get the Kahler bridge into its working range. (as I said, I've never worked on a Fender bridge)

Here are the two current ones with the bridges just sitting on top. Tomorrow's project....


Thanks Freeman, what I have in front of me right now is a Jazzmaster I put together for a friend a while ago. I told him to bring it back to me after he'd played it for a while as the guitar didn't have much time to settle in before I gave it to him. Jazzmasters have the full 25.5" scale so in this case I don't think that's contributing. But its interesting that you mentioned the warmoth thing. This is a warmoth body and neck, and it certainly seems like it could use a shim.

But I've had a few Jazzmasters (real fenders too, one was even a '64) in the shop over the last couple of months and they seem to buzz (largely coming from the bridge) if you look at them wrong, but if you're super mindful about how you play they work fine. I suspect I'm largely dealing with the idiosyncracies of the design, but wanted to check with other peoples experiences too. I sometimes get a tad myopic when it comes to setting up guitars, especially ones that are a little out of the ordinary.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:45 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:44 pm
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Location: Andersonville
State: Tennessee
Country: USA
Focus: Build
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Freeman mentioned using a .5 degree shim on a Jaguar parts-caster. 47 Fenders came through the shop last year all but one benefitted from Stew Mac's .025 degree shims. Elegant solution to permanently change neck angle, without, damaging the neck.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:11 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 10465
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Tecumseh and Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Clinchriver wrote:
Freeman mentioned using a .5 degree shim on a Jaguar parts-caster. 47 Fenders came through the shop last year all but one benefitted from Stew Mac's .025 degree shims. Elegant solution to permanently change neck angle, without, damaging the neck.


Good going Greg!!! That's some real volume and pretty cool!

Connor Leo Fender was a master of manufacturability making Fenders inexpensive and pretty easy to produce. Leo was not with his earliest designs however well versed or experienced with guitar physics.

When you say "buzzy" I take it you are not speaking of fret rattle? If you are the neck angle is not a solution to the tendency of Fender bolt-on style necks, everyone else's too to develop over time a bit of a ski ramp where the neck attaches to the body. With this said the remedy is a precision fret dress where much of the grunt work will be inducing fall-away and eliminating the ski ramp. Of all the fret dresses we do likely around half of them are done mostly for this reason because the ski ramp prevents decent action.

If you mean it's buzzy because of the poor break angles at the bridge even the very fine Mastery bridge and Mastery trem system won't solve the issue of not enough break angle. Shimming the neck can be helpful here but in my experience there is enough break angle for most players except the heavy handed ones.

On the other end, the nut you can also see on true to form original Fender Jaguars, Jazzmasters and mustangs not to mention Strats and Teles too poor break angle over the nut too.

A trick that I do and likely others who know about it is additional windings on the tuner posts for the G and D strings. I wind the G with over 6" of slack intentionally added so that the break angle is as great as it can be and this works great and costs nothing to do. Your client can restring this way too and maintain the added break angle. It also is not as invasive as a non-OEM added string tree so give it a try.

I just did two Jazzmasters yesterday for a fellow from France. We install lots of Mastery bridges these days too. Great product, very well and nicely made and the tin box with straw-like padding is a classy touch too.

Lastly I know you said break angles were on your mind but the fret plane is often an issue for players on Fenders also because of the tighter radius fret board except for some newer Fender models such as the Eric Johnson Strats with a 12" radius.

Good going on all the repair work you are doing too!

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These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: Clinchriver (Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:04 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:18 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Thanks everyone. I did end up shimming it, which helped a lot.


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