Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:01 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:38 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
Posts: 1831
First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
If slower equals smoother (fewer mistakes; less cleanup work to do), and
smoother equals faster (less time spent fixing/cleaning up), then by the Transitive Property of Equality as applied to the region of the shop housing my repair bench, slower equals faster.

And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job. wow7-eyes

_________________
We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:57 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5924
Woodie,
The corollary is that it is always a 30 minute job to the person who is not doing it.
Einstein postulated that as you approach the speed of light time slows down, so you must have been working really fast to take an hour and a half on a 30 minute job. bliss



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post: Woodie G (Tue May 28, 2019 7:15 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:07 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7241
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Slow is fast, really! By slow I mean not rushing.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"



These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post: Woodie G (Tue May 28, 2019 7:14 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:14 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
Posts: 1831
First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
...and this is why little Sally hates math class. eek

_________________
We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:12 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 952
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I can't tell how much I've speeded up jobs by shutting down the bench at ten p.m. Rework and undoing and doing-over eat up a lot of time better spent doing something else and at least getting some progress on the 'something else'.

_________________
Peter Havriluk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:06 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 2953
First name: Don
Last Name: Parker
City: Charleston
State: West Virginia
Zip/Postal Code: 25314
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Measure once, cuss twice.

My going fast doesn't always result in a mistake, but it increases the risk of one, and once it happens (eventually, it happens), I feel like a dang fool. And then I have to undo the mistake and do it right the second time (which always takes far longer), or start over with a fresh part. So, yeah, going slower and thereby minimizing mistakes is usually more efficient, overall.

However, I realize that I would have harder choices to make about how much time to spend on things if I were trying to do this for money.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:09 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6232
Location: Virginia
Slow and steady wins the race.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:15 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:35 pm
Posts: 2951
Location: United States
First name: Joe
Last Name: Beaver
City: Lake Forest
State: California
Focus: Build
And I thought it was only me!

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:25 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4524
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Woodie G wrote:
If slower equals smoother (fewer mistakes; less cleanup work to do), and
smoother equals faster (less time spent fixing/cleaning up), then by the Transitive Property of Equality as applied to the region of the shop housing my repair bench, slower equals faster.

And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job. wow7-eyes



Great , Now common core is in Lutherie !! [headinwall] laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:14 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job.


I just say "it's all about the process". No one can refute me and there's no math

Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:56 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7241
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Ruby50 wrote:
And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job.


I just say "it's all about the process". No one can refute me and there's no math

Ed
I'm stealing that one Ed :)

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:24 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:28 am
Posts: 183
First name: Leonard
Last Name: Duke
City: Kalamazoo
State: MI
Zip/Postal Code: 49001
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
A job worth doing is worth doing twice!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:54 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:14 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Allenstown, NH
First name: Steve
Last Name: Marcq
City: Allenstown
State: NH
Zip/Postal Code: 03275
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I may be slow, but I'm not fast..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:24 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1700
I hear that once you’re “over the hill” you start picking up speed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:13 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:37 am
Posts: 4777
Here’s my version as someone that works in a makerspace.

1) Hey babe, it’s probably going to be an hour and a half. (Not taking into account me being social.)

2) “No, seriously.”

3) What are you working on? Dang, that’s awesome. 20 minute conversation.

4) Start working.

5) “I’m on the way home.”

6) “I didn’t realize it would be four hours... Want me to get coffee?”

Alternatively, if I’m working on a “normal” project not related to luthiery, guitarmaking has made it such that I work three times slower than everyone else doing the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:34 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:12 am
Posts: 679
Location: United States
No matter how fast or how slow I work, I always manage to do something really stupid on every project. It is usually a new mistake, and I always swear to never do it again. That's not math, just facts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:22 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:58 pm
Posts: 1449
First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
City: Chestertown
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
James

I never make the same mistake twice. Why waste time when there are so many new mistakes to make.

Ed


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:06 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:48 am
Posts: 28
First name: Fred
Last Name: Overend
State: Lancashire
Country: United Kingdom
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
But if slower is faster, just think how much faster faster would be.... eek

_________________
https://overendsite.wordpress.com/2017/ ... -complete/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:51 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 2953
First name: Don
Last Name: Parker
City: Charleston
State: West Virginia
Zip/Postal Code: 25314
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Steven Wright: I put instant coffee in a microwave oven and almost went back in time.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:33 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 2:25 pm
Posts: 1954
First name: George
City: Seattle
State: WA
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
My mantra: go slow, take your time, be patient. I don't always succeed at that. Making mistakes can be terribly frustrating. Making them in hyper-real, Matrix-style slo-mo is just depressing. :(

_________________
George :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:36 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 375
First name: john
Last Name: shelton
City: Alsea
State: Oregon
Zip/Postal Code: 97324
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
:|
phavriluk wrote:
I can't tell how much I've speeded up jobs by shutting down the bench at ten p.m.

Ten pm!!! I'm in bed asleep by then, I'm usually through with shop work by 3 pm and on my porch with a glass of wine by 4. But then, I'm older than dirt which I guess is as good an excuse for as any for sloth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:11 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3869
Location: United States
I call that the 'koan of lutherie': "The slower you work the faster you get done".

In the book about the Voyager project they cited the hanger chief's rule:"No job takes less than an hour". It should take only ten minutes to sweep up, but it actually takes an hour....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:56 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:04 pm
Posts: 315
First name: Andy
Status: Professional
Woodie G wrote:
... then by the Transitive Property of Equality as applied to the region of the shop housing my repair bench, slower equals faster. ...

I was never math proficient, in spite of lots of studies in the subject. That said, as my father explained to me - a cow is black, and black is a color, but a cow is not a color.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:49 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 19
Location: United States
I've also heard this:
"You can have any two: fast, good, cheap."
When you go fast you get cheap but not good,
When it's fast and good, then it's very expensive! (;-D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:16 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2142
My Father used to say

"I used to be behind before, but now I'm first at last"


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 59 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com