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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:32 am 
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Mahogany
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Hello. I need advice on the end pin jack of an archtop guitar.

Situation: first archtop build (f holes). Now the back is already glued to the sides, ready for glueing the top. I will use a Bebedetto tailpiece fastener for fix the tailpiece.

I would need to know first when it is time to install the end pin jack and if it is enough to fix it with the nut or it is better to apply epoxy or something similar.

I have seen in Benedetto's book a end pin jack with a double channel (one channel for the tailpiece fastener and another for the strap, I suppose), but I can't find it. I have a pin with only one channel. it is ok?

I thank you in advance for your help.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:04 pm 
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Do NOT use epoxy. You want the guitar to be repairable in case the jack goes bad.

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These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Hesh (Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:31 am)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:06 pm 
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Koa
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Juan CAR wrote:
Hello. I need advice on the end pin jack of an archtop guitar.

Situation: first archtop build (f holes). Now the back is already glued to the sides, ready for glueing the top. I will use a Bebedetto tailpiece fastener for fix the tailpiece.

I would need to know first when it is time to install the end pin jack and if it is enough to fix it with the nut or it is better to apply epoxy or something similar.

I have seen in Benedetto's book a end pin jack with a double channel (one channel for the tailpiece fastener and another for the strap, I suppose), but I can't find it. I have a pin with only one channel. it is ok?

I thank you in advance for your help.


StewMac used to sell a double ring jack but don't appear to any longer. This is what they suggest now. https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas ... tructions/


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:19 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I am personally not a fan of that whole system, although many peoples mileage may vary.
I find a metal bracket screwed to the tailpiece , then, using the end pin jack as a “clamp” sturdier and more reliable.


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These users thanked the author Brad Goodman for the post: Hesh (Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:32 am)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:21 pm 
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Mahogany
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Chris Pile wrote:
Do NOT use epoxy. You want the guitar to be repairable in case the jack goes bad.

Thank you for the advice!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:26 pm 
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Mahogany
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Darrel Friesen wrote:
Juan CAR wrote:
Hello. I need advice on the end pin jack of an archtop guitar.

Situation: first archtop build (f holes). Now the back is already glued to the sides, ready for glueing the top. I will use a Bebedetto tailpiece fastener for fix the tailpiece.

I would need to know first when it is time to install the end pin jack and if it is enough to fix it with the nut or it is better to apply epoxy or something similar.

I have seen in Benedetto's book a end pin jack with a double channel (one channel for the tailpiece fastener and another for the strap, I suppose), but I can't find it. I have a pin with only one channel. it is ok?

I thank you in advance for your help.


StewMac used to sell a double ring jack but don't appear to any longer. This is what they suggest now. https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas ... tructions/

Very useful. Thank you very much!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:30 pm 
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Mahogany
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Brad Goodman wrote:
I am personally not a fan of that whole system, although many peoples mileage may vary.
I find a metal bracket screwed to the tailpiece , then, using the end pin jack as a “clamp” sturdier and more reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I consider this option a very interesting alternative. And do you use a hinge to make the angle more flexible?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 9:31 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Juan CAR wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote:
I am personally not a fan of that whole system, although many peoples mileage may vary.
I find a metal bracket screwed to the tailpiece , then, using the end pin jack as a “clamp” sturdier and more reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I consider this option a very interesting alternative. And do you use a hinge to make the angle more flexible?


I don’t use a hinge I just bend the bracket in a vice.
It doesn’t need to be flexible. I just bend it to the correct angle.
Image



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkImage

here’s a picture of a Buscarino Tailpiece with a hinge, and this also shows how it’s attached on the underside.
Image
Image
Image



These users thanked the author Brad Goodman for the post: Hesh (Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:32 am)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:33 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Nice Brad!!!

Juan you will get more replies if you post pics of what you speak of. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:23 am 
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Koa
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Brad Goodman wrote:
I am personally not a fan of that whole system, although many peoples mileage may vary.
I find a metal bracket screwed to the tailpiece , then, using the end pin jack as a “clamp” sturdier and more reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I tend to agree with you Brad. For the most part, the Benedetto way works well, although the one thing I really don't like about the Benedetto way is the tailpiece fulcrum sitting directly on the top, causing a little dent and finish damage over time. There are ways around this including inlaying a small piece of bone or hardwood in the top. The last few I did were similar to yours although they were also screwed to the body like the Buscarino you showed.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:24 am 
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I had an end pin holding a strap fail. I’ve posted it elsewhere, but it made such an explosive sound I did something involuntary and messy (in the immortal words of Sid the Sloth).

I use a marine brass hinge inlayed into the tailpiece similar to that Buscarino tailpiece. Unfortunately I seem unable to find them again. I wish I had bought two dozen of them when I had a chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:11 pm 
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Koa
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Darrel Friesen wrote:
I tend to agree with you Brad. For the most part, the Benedetto way works well, although the one thing I really don't like about the Benedetto way is the tailpiece fulcrum sitting directly on the top, causing a little dent and finish damage over time. There are ways around this including inlaying a small piece of bone or hardwood in the top.



I did my first one like a cello, or violin, with a saddle cut into the top, and resting on the lower block. The little one I'm finishing up now I'll use a bent brass attachment.

This is a nice violin in baroque set up. My guitar one has grooves for the cord. My eyes got the pin hole way off center! The grooves worked though. The bridge wanted to walk at first; then I realized my eyeballs were off.

Attachment:
vn155-BaroqueStainer-Saddle-2000px-1822186116.jpeg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:27 pm 
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Koa
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That's a good solution too Ken. I've seen similar ones done with bone as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2023 3:30 pm 
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rlrhett wrote:
I had an end pin holding a strap fail. I’ve posted it elsewhere, but it made such an explosive sound I did something involuntary and messy (in the immortal words of Sid the Sloth).



I assume that was a regular endpin as used in an acoustic guitar. I can't imagine the amount of shear force it would take to cause one to break using Benedetto's dimensions. The steel cable would snap first in my estimation.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:27 am 
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I am not sure what distinction you are making, but it was an end pin Jack which is what I believe the op was asking about. Image


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:22 pm 
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Koa
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rlrhett wrote:
I am not sure what distinction you are making, but it was an end pin Jack which is what I believe the op was asking about. Image


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Sorry, brainfart. I was thinking more the Benedetto system and had wooden pins stuck in my head for some reason. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:08 pm 
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Mahogany
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Brad Goodman wrote:
Juan CAR wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote:
I am personally not a fan of that whole system, although many peoples mileage may vary.
I find a metal bracket screwed to the tailpiece , then, using the end pin jack as a “clamp” sturdier and more reliable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I consider this option a very interesting alternative. And do you use a hinge to make the angle more flexible?


I don’t use a hinge I just bend the bracket in a vice.
It doesn’t need to be flexible. I just bend it to the correct angle.
Image



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkImage

here’s a picture of a Buscarino Tailpiece with a hinge, and this also shows how it’s attached on the underside.
Image
Image
Image

Thank you very much for your kind info. The pictures are also very valuable.

Thank too to the other members that have written replies with interesting info.

Now I have a idea about how to proceed. I will go flor the brass option since seem to me more resistent, is cheaper and more easy to found in Europe.

In relation to fasten the end pin jack I will use just the nut and the washer supplied with the item, but I’m worried this can became loosen after a time in a f hole instrument!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:12 pm 
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Mahogany
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Darrel Friesen wrote:
rlrhett wrote:
I am not sure what distinction you are making, but it was an end pin Jack which is what I believe the op was asking about. Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Sorry, brainfart. I was thinking more the Benedetto system and had wooden pins stuck in my head for some reason. :)

Sorry for not include pictures before. Yes, is a very similar end pin:

Image


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