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| Consumables Cost https://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25268 |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Consumables Cost |
I saw a flyer the other day from one of those bargain places and there was an acoustic guitar on sale there for $29.95. It had frets and everything. I can't imagine how even just a guitar shaped object can be made at that cost. The thought that came to me was that I'm sure that I spend more than that just on the stuff that gets used up in making a guitar e.g. sand paper, old glue, waste wood etc. So now I'm curious, how much do you figure you use up in consumable items per guitar. I haven't actually figured it out but I seem to end up with one medium sized garbage can full of, well garbage, for each guitar. Pat |
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| Author: | matthewrust [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Selling a guitar at that price is probably an attempt by the retailer to make some money on gig bag, strings, picks, etc. I would bet they are losing money on the guitar itself. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
I build Mandolins as most know , and I estimate that I have $300.00 in , materals , tuners , tail piece , fretboard, frets, color , wood etc.... I usally dont use the cheaper items , but not the most expensive either. So even if they were mass produced out of trash , they would still have more than $30.00 in them. Bottom line is I wouldnt wanna try and play one , probably break in my hands . |
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| Author: | Haans [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Bandaids...just about took the pad off my thumb today. Mashed back together with 5 bandaids. Not a good start to the year. X-acto #11's Bandsaw blades Sanding belts lectricity...YIKES! Dyes Solvents...acetone, alcohol, thinner Filters...downdraft sanding table, air scrubber, spray booth Router bits, Dremel bits, drill bits Pencils, marking pens |
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| Author: | Paul Burner [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Todd Stock wrote: Just a quick estimate - I'm thinking about $40 or so, but that could be on the low side. Adhesives (HHG, LMI White, CA, epoxy) - $5 Glue mixing cups (I use 10-15 per build just for CA) - $2 Micro pipettes (4-5 per build minimum...lots of inlay = lots of CA, etc.) - $2 Tape (masking; clear, strapping or fat back for binding) - $5 Paper Towels (at least a roll per guitar) - $2 Sand Paper (150, 220, 320 plus all the finer grades, steel wool for frets, etc.) - $10 Razer blades (20-30 used as scrapers, etc.) - $2 Sharpening supplies (stones wear; paper tears; honing paste is used up) - $3 Buffing compound - $3 Nitrile gloves (10 pairs at about .10 a pair) - $1 Respirator filters (1/10 of a set) - $3 Hey Todd..... what about amortization of the cost of replacing router bits, bandsaw blades, etc.???? I like this thread - this really helps as it gives me a more exact idea of costs. |
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| Author: | MRS [ Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Sam ash had these Carlo Robelli for $39.00. Classical guitars. I picked one up and the strings were bottomed out on every fret. There was no truss rod being it a classical. There is remotely no chance of being able to set these guitars up and playing them. I guess you just buys these to get your 3 year old to stop touching your real guitars. You just let him wail away on it to keep him content at least until he's old enough to realize it doesn't work right. 
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
In addition to much of the above add in the cost ($5) of one Festool vac bag for me.... I use one bag per guitar and part of my ritual of getting ready to build a new guitar is to change my vac bag... |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
There's also computer cost, and the cost of internet access. Isn't surfing the web (especially the OLF) part of the build process 
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Can you really consider glue a consumable? As it actually is a component on the guitar, not just something that goes in the trash after use. |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
For me glue is a consumable because I only build two guitars a year during the fall an winter and end up throwing away half a bottle each year after the second guitar. |
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| Author: | Chas Freeborn [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
I never used to pay much attention to consumables until I worked for a contractor that used a rather sophisticated estimating software which wouldn't allow you to proceed until all costs were accounted for. It was a bit of a wake up call. Whether you call it material & consumables, direct & indirect costs doesn't matter as long as you add it to your COGS (cost of goods sold). At the job I had we computed it as a function of man hours, based on historical data referenced with the type of project we were bidding. As I recall it was somewhere around $4-5 per man hour. On guitars I call it an even $50, which is probably a tad rich, but it's better to err in my favor... I personally track things like blades and bits as small tool costs (as opposed to 5+year machinery investments). If a project requires any custom tooling I consider that a direct cost and bill it against the job. Again, it really is a matter of preference and bookkeeping method. -C |
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| Author: | Paul Burner [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
As a business owner I have two basic listings for these types of things. COGS (Cost of Goods Sold) and "Office expense" Regardless of which category an item gets applied to it still effects my bottom line P/L statement. so.... If a flush-cut router bit costs me $25 and I can get 10 guitars out of it (just guessing, not an actual fact) then the cost per guitar is $2.50. Because of the nature of the business, I would probably amortize this router bit as an expense per each guitar. Right now I'm trying to learn how long items like router bits, sanding belts and other similar items last. I may be on the high side based on what others are posting - but I'm listing my consumables expenses at $100 per guitar and take this to include the above-mentioned items. |
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| Author: | Chas Freeborn [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Agreed, the big numbers dwarf the small ones, but pennies add up to nickels, which add up to ....$ Sadly, the best tool in the box may be quicken. -C |
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| Author: | woodsworth [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Running a woodworking business i've always tried to be fair. I used to get upset at the over inflated prices that people charged for things. I still am to some degree. If I was to run a luthier business which i hope to be in the next ten years. One has to decide how much they want to make a year. Then they have to figure out how many guitars they can build in that time including time for holidays etc. Add one third to the yearly income and divide it by the number of guitars you can build and bobs your uncle. This is of course basing the business as being a one man band. Now you start build your guitars and get what you can for them till you are in enough demand that the price goes up to this projected number, then you can quite your day job. You can only personally make what you can personally make, unless you change your building practices and or hire someone to help. These also change things as they are investments. Finding that balance between hand made and machine made is a balancing act that each luthier has to decide for themselves. But consumables are just that, something consumed to produce the job. I don't even think about them because they are irrelevant. I just buy them as needed, knowing they are needed and paid for by the customer. As a cabinet maker it is included in my labour price. I add an hourly fee for these things. When I transition into being a Luthier it will only be an issue until the demand for my work dictates i can make a living from the craft. That's my take on it. As for the 30 dollar guitar, its not unbelievable, the Chinese can knock off a violin for not much more. A little setting up finessing it can be sold for a profit, many shops do this. It would be much harder with a guitar though as you'd have to pull it apart and rebuild it to be able to sell it with clear conscience. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Edward Taylor wrote: Can you really consider glue a consumable? As it actually is a component on the guitar, not just something that goes in the trash after use. Either you acount for it as a consumable or as material. Most of us buy glue in small bulk. enough to be sure we have it always available but not so much that we worry with it getting old. In any case it is seldom to never bought on a per build basis so I consider it a consumable. Fret wire is also a component. but I buy it in bulk and it's cost is a consumable in my eyes. I also figure brace wood as a consumable cost because I do not buy it on an per build basis. IMO the fact that it does or does not go in the trash does not make it a consumable but rather if it is bulk stocked. In my cost brake down finish media is a consumable. If an item is spect out specific to a build and not bought in bulk as a common supply then it's cost is material colst. But items common to each every build and bought in bulk supply and seldom subject to client specification then it is a consumables. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Here is another way to look at it from a manufacturing stand point. My company builds pumping units that start at $100K and go up to over $3/4 million US dollars per unit. Each of these units use bolts nuts and washers of various size lengths thread pitch and material grades. These bolts are a component of the unit, however it unreasonable for use to buy these items based on a scheduled unit production basis. If we did we would constantly be running short in the middle of production runs. So we buy them in massive bulk and maintain a rough constant inventory and buy in mass bulk orders rather than on production projection basis. The cost of these fasteners must be accounted for at some time but to do it on a per unit basis would never account to the lost or damaged fasteners that happen during construction or our product. Therefore the cost of fasteners for our product is part of our overhead cost assumption. The over head cost assumption includes thing like engineering payroll, shop payroll, utilities, consumables and liability expenses. If we bought fasteners on a production basis we would constantly be readjusting the unit cost. Having their cost in the consumables category allows us to budget for them. But to not have to count cost for each and every one on each and every unit. But to regularly monitor and adjust our consumable usage and adjust the over head rate on a quarterly basis. Of course this is if you are build as a buisness not as a personal hobby. So to me glue, brace wood, fret wire, finish media and such that is used on every build, bought in bulk supply and not subject to a specific builds specification is considered consumable or at least calulated out as a consumable when I calculate unit cost |
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| Author: | mateo4x4 [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Consumables Cost |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Hesh wrote: In addition to much of the above add in the cost ($5) of one Festool vac bag for me.... I use one bag per guitar and part of my ritual of getting ready to build a new guitar is to change my vac bag... My eyes were about to pop out of my head ... then I remembered that you use your Festool vac as the main vac in your shop. I couldn't figure out how you fill a bag with one guitar! Filippo A top failure could fill a bag with a guitar real quick...especially if you lose your cool when it happens.  Anyway, very good info here, thanks! Keep it going! -Matthew |
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