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buying spruce
https://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37835		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  nkforster [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  buying spruce
Folks, when it comes to buying spruce soundboards, would you prefer:

Joined or unjoined?
Thicknessed or unthicknessed?
What thickness?
Fresh cut or seasoned?


What would be your ideal senario? What would you like to know before buying?


nigel


http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/#/book/4568936095
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Unjoined
Rough thicknesses to about 4mm
Seasoned. (or at least dry enough to use within a few weeks of arrival)
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
what he said, but maybe a bit thicker.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Not joined.
Either right off the saw or rough thicknessed as stated above, 3/16ths to 1/4th inch if right from the saw.
Seasoned is nice, especially if I need to use it right away, but I have a lot of spruce seasoning now so that is not a major issue.

Things I like to know before buying?
1) Grain count. While grain count is no indicator of stiffness, I prefer the look of tighter grain lines.
2) Species. Sitka, Engelmann, Lutz, Carpathian, Caucasian, etc. But this should be something obvious that you would want to know, right?
3) Actual dimensions, not "Dread Sized" or "OM" sized.
4) Was the wood harvested in a sustainable manner? Was it a blow down or was it cut? We need to be aware of the wood source if we hope to have good wood for many years to come. We don't want spruce or cedar ending up on the CITES list, do we?
5) idunno
Author:  nkforster [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Great. Any more? How seasoned is your minimum? Would you like to get your hands on stuff that is older? Four years - ten years? Same for backs and sides too?

nigel

http://www.nkforsterguitars.com/#/book/4568936095
Author:  IBKuz [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Tony_in_NYC wrote:
Not joined.
Either right off the saw or rough thicknessed as stated above, 3/16ths to 1/4th inch if right from the saw.
Seasoned is nice, especially if I need to use it right away, but I have a lot of spruce seasoning now so that is not a major issue.

Things I like to know before buying?
1) Grain count. While grain count is no indicator of stiffness, I prefer the look of tighter grain lines.
2) Species. Sitka, Engelmann, Lutz, Carpathian, Caucasian, etc. But this should be something obvious that you would want to know, right?
3) Actual dimensions, not "Dread Sized" or "OM" sized.
4) Was the wood harvested in a sustainable manner? Was it a blow down or was it cut? We need to be aware of the wood source if we hope to have good wood for many years to come. We don't want spruce or cedar ending up on the CITES list, do we?
5) idunno


One other "nice to know" is if the material has been processed from a split billet to reduce grain run out.
Author:  Tom West [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Tony: I can't tell you how POed I get when folks advertize material as Dread or Om size. Thanks for posting that,maybe more people will use actual measurements...................!!!
Tom
Author:  bluescreek [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
I only buy off ebay from people that I know. Finding a supplier that can fill your needs and be consistent is hard . Once you find one stay with him. RC Tonewoods and Colonial are great to deal with .
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
I buy them unjoined, because joining means extra service fees, and it costs more to ship (as well as being more fragile) due to its larger size. I prefer to do as much of the processing as possible myself, saves on processing cost that is further inflated by possible custom tax.

As for seasoning I always season them myself, because no matter how seasoned the wood is its never stable until I let it sit in my environment long enough...
Author:  mqbernardo [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
unjoined, 4-5 mm thick, rough thicknessed and and bigger than the intended guitar size, so you can get stuff from the off-cuts. if it´s available i´m willing to pay more for extra years of seasoning (many vendors do that IME). a big plus is good photos of the set you´re buying.

above all things, though, i want well quartered wood - not just in the center. and with the least amount of runout possible - but i suppose that´s what we all want...

cheers,
miguel.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
+2 on the sizes. I like to know actual dimensions. I always prefer seasoned though I tend to keep them for a year or more. But still it's nice to be seasoned because it's a more stable. Good photo's are a plus. At least 1/8th inch thick and not joined.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
On the subject of seasoning, my spruce and cedar that will not be used any time soon, i.e. more than 12 months till I use it, is stored in my garage so it freezes in the winter and bakes in the summer.
Anyone see a problem with that? It has all remained flat and stable. I don't feel that simply keeping it in a climate controlled environment actually "seasons" it since it is not exposed to the seasons, get it? But that is my opinion. Probably should have started another thread for that.
Author:  John Arnold [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Quote:
Anyone see a problem with that?

The most useful aspect of seasoning wood is that it relieves internal stresses, making it more stable. This is more of an issue with hardwoods. Spruce and cedar generally don't develop internal stresses, but there is certainly no harm in storing wood that way. I have done it since 1982.
For rough sawn tops, the minimum thickness I shoot for is 0.170" (4.3 mm). I can supply much information about the red spruce tops I have cut, but the most critical is which particular tree they came from.
Author:  murrmac [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
nkforster wrote:
Folks, when it comes to buying spruce soundboards, would you prefer:

Joined or unjoined?

Why on earth would anybody buy a top that had already been joined by a third party?

And furthermore, does any supplier actually offer pre-joined tops for sale?

LMI don't, and Stewmac don't ... and for good reason, it would be commercial suicide ...
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Unjoined and face to face so I can touch it first. The only place I still buy from without seeing it first is from Florinett and Shane. (would from Northwind, but its easy (and enjoyable!) to see Tom in person). Ideal thickness is .15+
Author:  Tom West [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
[quote="Tony_in_NYC"]On the subject of seasoning, my spruce and cedar that will not be used any time soon, i.e. more than 12 months till I use it, is stored in my garage so it freezes in the winter and bakes in the summer.
Anyone see a problem with that?
Tony: Lots of folks advocate for that kind of storage as it puts the wood through a series of expanding and contracting phases that wood stored in a constant RH would not be exposed to. Thus seasoning as compared to drying which happens in a relatively short time.
Tom
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  buying spruce
I'm doing something right? Cool!


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Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: buying spruce
Tony_in_NYC wrote:
I'm doing something right? Cool!
and you have Tapatalk, how cool is that! :) (j/k)
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  buying spruce
It's cool like the other side of the pillow.


Posted from my Toaster oven using Tapatalk
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