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https://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50960		 Page 8 of 10
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Can the wax be removed afterwards to enable oiling the board?
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Keep a rag dampened with acetone handy to wipe up the excess CA. I use Titebond to avoid that kind of mess.

You can remove wax with acetone or alcohol, but wax works well as a final fretboard finish.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Never tried Titebond, I've only used fish glue, hide glue or CA. I use the StewMac Jaws II and clamp them one at a time. Typically I clamp the fret to seat it in the slot, unclamp it, wick in the CA, wipe off the excess then reclamp, wipe off any squeeze out, spray on accelerator, then unclamp when dry and go to the next one. I keep the unfretted slots covered up to keep the accelerator off of them until I'm ready. It takes a little more time but I have very little, if any, cleanup when I'm done.

What Barry said. I forgot to say that I also keep my paper towel (or rag if you like) dampened with acetone.

Not trying to convince anyone to use CA but if you do then this is just one way to do it without having to do a lot of extra cleanup. When you get the process sorted it goes pretty fast, the other glues take too long to dry.
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
I definitely prefer CA if I can keep it off the board. I've got about 8 more frets to install when my bottle of CA arrives. If the slots were tighter it would be a lot easier to do the cleanup. I over radius the fret wire so the ends stay down when I press or hammer them in. With these oversized slots, I have to keep pressure on them and with Titebond and my radius caul covering multiple glued in frets, it's impossible to clean it up. I fully intend to fix the problem with my tablesaw fret slotting setup before making another board but I'm just doing the best I can with the mess I've made. Gotta keep moving ahead.
Author:  Woodie G [ Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Medium BSI CA applied with a whip tip prevents much squeeze-out, and avoids the need to wax the board (and risk pushing wax into the slots and interfering with what you want the glue to be doing).

As a technique for CA fretwork:

- Make sure the slots are free of any dust (dust can kick cure...even of med CA)
- Use a whip tip on the end of the glue bottle with end slightly flattened to apply medium CA (thin is too quick/not gap-filling; gel is too high in viscosity to wet out the bottom of the slot and around the tangs)...with bottle held as desired, the flat should align with the slot
- Start the glue application with the whip tip inserted into the slot and about 1/8" from one end
- Fill the slot as needed to fully wet-set the fret without much beyond token squeeze-out (the fill required varies by slot depth, tang depth, etc., but once the ideal fill for that combo is known, it is easy to replicate)
- Mask the sides of the neck and adjacent to the extension with low-tack tape to avoid squeeze-out issues...this becomes less of an issue as you get the slot fill calibrated
- Use a dry paper towel to wipe off squeeze-out along the fret before it cures
- Use a fresh razor blade to scrape off any glue residue, polish the board with maroon/gray/green, then bevel/level/crown/polish as needed

Tips:

- A properly filled slot will not have ANY CA on the show surface prior to inserting the fret tang, but will have visible glue at a uniform height below the top of the slot
- A properly filled slot may show very slight squeeze-out at the ends of a non-bound board, and some beads of CA on bound boards

We used medium BSI CA for stainless steel new and refret work on non-vintage instruments. Anything other than hide glue is a pain in the posterior to clean out of slots at refret, so other than 'forever' fret jobs, hot hide is a better material to bed down the wire if the slots are in decent shape.
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
This is great information that I hope to look back on when I make proper fitting slots. For this job, I want the CA to kick quick and if I can get the right amount as you say, maybe little to no squeeze out. I just ordered thin CA and don't want to make another order but for future work, I'll get some medium, I should have it anyway. Thanks Woodie

It just dawned on me that if I make the bend as close as possible to the fretboard I will be able to put the fret in without clamping and do the clean up.
Author:  banjopicks [ Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
I changed my mind and ordered some medium viscosity. I'll just have to wait a little longer to finish the job. Thanks again for the tip Woodie.
Author:  doncaparker [ Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Woodie G wrote:
Anything other than hide glue is a pain in the posterior to clean out of slots at refret, so other than 'forever' fret jobs, hot hide is a better material to bed down the wire if the slots are in decent shape.


Being a lover of hot hide glue for many tasks (including this one), I thought I would isolate and repeat this specific piece of wisdom.
Author:  banjopicks [ Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
My glue pot is on hiatus until I retire. I don't have time for it. I do agree with you though.
Author:  banjopicks [ Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Good enough for first guitar. I haven't leveled the frets yet so there still more clean up to do after it's installed on the guitar.

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Author:  banjopicks [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
I guess it's on to installing the inlay, been a while and I'm not even sure of how to remove it from the cardboard that it came on. Then what kind of glue to stick it in place so I can scribe it. The rest is a piece of cake. Then finally, the finishing begins. EM6000.

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Author:  Colin North [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Quote:
Anything other than hide glue is a pain in the posterior to clean out

I'm in the middle of a re-fret on a guitar I re-fretted 4 years ago using fish glue in the slots - slow setting unlike CA, hardens like glass, use from the bottle, easy to clean slots and any residue softens easily in fresh fish glue (I dilute if with 1/3 water).
A overflow wipes off readily with a damp towel as does anything you might miss after it sets.
Frets come out really easily with a soldering iron.
I use a syringe and slightly flattened blunt needle to put the glue in.
Thanks to John hall [:Y:]
Author:  banjopicks [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Again, this a special case where the slots are huge and the frets don't stay in by themselves. Otherwise, any glue would work and be easy peasy cleanup. This will never ever happen again. In the past. I never even use glue on a well fit fret and that's my preference going forward.
Author:  BradHall [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Maybe it’s just the camera angle, but your tuner hole layout looks a bit too close to the outside edge. I would double check before drilling. Good thing you picked a simple inlay for the head plate:-)
Author:  banjopicks [ Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
It's 1/2" in according to the plan.

I don't mind the intricate inlay, as long as didn't have to make it. I do have an additional inlay that I want to cut myself. I may not include those dots, I'm not sure yet
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Shout out to John Hall. I just watched a video of John inlaying the same inlay I'm doing. Fantastic, now I know to separate the pieces and cut and fit them individually. I was going to attempt it all in one shot. This seems like a better method. Thanks John.
Author:  Woodie G [ Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
You will not want your tuner post spacing to be fixed by offset from the edge for a Martin-style solid head stock shape - very likely you will end up with post to string interference on your A and B strings and the E2 and E4 posts.

Instead, you want the A and B tuner posts spaced the same as the E2/E4 posts, and the D and G posts spread another 1/4". For a 2-7/8" Martin peghead, that might be E2/E4 and A/B string posts 1-7/16" apart and the D/G set 1-11/16". There will be some variation - usually with the middle pair slightly closer than the E2/E4 pair.

Many of the plans available have this erroneous tuner spacing issue, but a quick measurement of any Martin solid head stock with 3+3 tuners will demonstrate the correct practice. I believe the dreadnaught plan offered by StewMac shows that correct spacing.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
A little light drafting of peghead layout and string paths will tell you what you need to know.
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Thanks, I'm glad I haven't drilled them yet. I'll double check the dimensions and readjust things.
Author:  Woodie G [ Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
As Mr. Daniels mentioned, a quick full-scale drawing of the nut (with slots), peghead, and the tuner shaft locations will settle the issue.
Author:  banjopicks [ Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Got my inlay done, yay! Not perfect but it's been a while and this is pretty intricate. I love it.

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Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
So I see you guys and gals are a bit cautious about saying anything about this inlay abortion. Yeah I got the ball at the the top out of place, but one other thing, I may have forgot to remove the scotch tape that held most of it together, or I thought it would all come off with sanding after gluing it in. I think I still see some. I'm so glad I did this in ebony. Guitar #2 will have something more simple or I'll take the inlay apart and cut and install as I go ala John Hall in his YT video. I think my scribing technique needs some work. I just used a white pencil.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
An accurate scribe mark is crucial no matter which method you choose. I choose to glue inlay down (very lightly of course) simply so I can get a very accurate scribe mark. I've watched his videos and my hat's off to John but I can't pull it off that way. Just gotta pick the method that works for you. As far as the tape goes I always set my inlays a few thou proud and then level after I'm done.
Author:  banjopicks [ Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Well this one didn't work so onto another method. I think I'll need to glue it down and scribe with a needle. That worked well for me in the past and I don't know why I didn't stick with it.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Build started
Trying things is how we make progress - too bad sometimes we find out things that don't work for us [headinwall]

After it's under finish I think it will look just fine. I'm always amazed at what people do not see when I show them my guitars.
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