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| A Beginners Setup https://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54275 |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | A Beginners Setup |
Well, I did get one set up and going, but it was an arch top, and that is like a violin, adjust everything with the bridge. Simple and easy. This flattop is a different animal. I thought the frets were fairy good. I two or three ends that I had to pound down more, but looking down the neck, they looked very even. Putting scales and plane blades on them they seemed pretty good, Stringing it up, I found that the neck was set too high; so I adjusted it; luckily it has an adjustable neck. I think I'll do that all the time. The strings were right against the fretboard with no tension. They are 2mm above at the high E, and 3 mm above at the low E with tension. The bridge, or saddle rose some; maybe 2-3 mm, so maybe 2-3mm more came from the neck moving. I want to call the saddle the bridge, because the bridge holds the strings up on other stringed instruments, and the saddle is the piece on the opposite end of the nut. It just seems strange to me. I see saddle, and think that might be the wood holding the "bridge" in place. But a tension, the frets are not flat, and I mapped them out, and using a file, and plane blades checked for flatness, I went through and got them level. Then you have to go back over again, because you changed the point of one of the frets you were using to check rock on the one before. It took me a while. This is what I started with: 1-4 is how much it rocks. 1 is hardly anything. 2 isn't much, 3 is noticeable, 4 is how did that happen? Attachment: IMG_0485.jpg The instrument does not have a truss rod. I was hoping for some up bow. The high e plays fine the 2mm clearance at the 12th, so that is good. The strings are quite light, maybe 80 pounds. The E and A when strummed together almost touch! I thought it would work, but when I take the strings off to round off the tops of the frets, I have to raise the saddle up about 1.5mm, It was just flat on a slight taper, and did not have the 12 inch radius on it. I thought that I would file the radius in after setting the string heights. I have no stock on the saddle to file the string ends down, I'd have to move the neck back the other way a little. Right now the saddle sticks up 3-4mm above the bridge. It will still be 3-4 above at the ends when I move it; after I set the string height, but the center will be 1.5 mm higher. That should do the trick. I read 3-4mm is about right. Don't know why. This is what I have now: Attachment: IMG_0484.jpg I have the frets almost flat. the last 5 or so need nothing. But with the low clearance on the d and g strings, they buzz somewhere; 13 or 15 maybe. I'm guessing that the 1.4mm, or more of height at the saddle will take care of that. All in all, setting up a flattop is more involved than a violin or arch top. I did have to file a few frets on my arch top, but I just did it, and didn't have to think about if they were buzzing, because you can have the saddle real hight, and that isn't a problem. When the frets are flat, you can drop the action until it works. Is there a good way to make sure that frets are down? Some that I took a lot off don't look like the were up at all! Was that top that far off? Is it better to file them flat with no tension, before stringing them up? I thought of getting that guriion? fret file. The perfectly round tops of the frets looked nice. Past tense. I just liked the round look. That one seems to be the only round one. Sandpaper for polishing? I tried a tiny Dremel buffer on the ends after they got in, and they just fall apart. Some sort of rubber abrasive seems like it would work. I m not complaining. It is all working. I'm just learning, and trying to find ways that word better than other ways. |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
The professionals will use a piece of angle aluminium with abrasive stuck on so they can sand down the frets locally with the strings up to tension. ie going between the strings. After rounding the frets with a fret file I use wet and dry, I think starting with 400 grade and moving up to whatever sheen I want that day. I always meant to cut a groove in a piece of wood to carry the abrasive but tried using the fret file itself and that seems to work fine. Cheers Dave |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
Angle iron with abrasives? That sounds good for the spots of mine the were only marked 1 or 2. I used a wide short needle file. If that had a bent handle it would be easier. I ordered the fret file and some purfling and binding for my next project: a baroque guitar in A, that is .6 the size of a baroque in E. I will change it from 10 to 8 strings, and use the bottom 8 strings for more tension. A lot of veneer and purfling. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
500 mm of 2" x 1" box section aluminium (£10.0 or so) is what I use, flattened on a granite surface block. Different grits each side. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
Same as Colin. I level frets with the strings off. |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
Sorry I wasn't very clear. Yes one would use a flat length of whatever to flatten the frets initially without strings. If however under tension some small irregularities show then you can use the technique I mentioned. There is a very good video training course put out by Robbie Obrien presented by Michael Bashkin. He goes into great detail on not only setting up new guitars but dealing with refrets and so forth. Cheers Dave |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
I do like the idea of the angle iron. I also Do have an aluminum flattener, but it is a little short. Why make them short? Forgot all about it, it is in the other room. It probably would have got them close. I like the Bugs Bunny line, " What a maroon! " It cracks me up. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
I use a 150mm angle aluminum for spot leveling under tension with p400. Works great. Pat |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
I found I had to tune up the aluminum angle on the surface plate a bit to get it flat. For anyone trying this the first time you might check it out to see if it’s flat enough. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
I use the side edge of an 18" aluminum carpenter's level. It was already a precise flat surface that didn't need any tune up. |
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| Author: | CarlD [ Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
Depends on the level. I had to spend a bit of time to flatten mine up. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
I used thin double sided tape, and it's hard to get off. What kind of adhesive abrasives do you use? |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
3M stickit Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
Naptha helps the double stick tape release and will clean off the residue too. |
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| Author: | Ken Nagy [ Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A Beginners Setup |
Well, I have the frets done up. The Gurian fret file was easier than needle files. I see that some didn't get all the way down at the edge when I pounded them in. They weren't moving. It is my first bound one, and I must not have cleaned them out as good as they should, glue from the binding. I used regular wood glue putting the frets in. I tried CA, it is too hard to control. I guess you need those little tips? I don't have any. The frets were hard to pound in. Do the HAVE TO be that tight? I'm sure that they made my fretboard go out of wack some too; I didn't need that. How do you keep it from doing that? The fretboard is Katalux, and it is pretty hard. Would a maple board have less problem with that? I used three different lengths of broken carbide end mills as fret rockers. Plane blades and other things are not reliably flat. 400 grit sandpaper, followed by the grey, and sometimes the red? fiber sheet worked good for polishing them up. They could probably get shinier, but they are smooth. I will do some more work on the fretboard wood to clean and polish it, and then I'll put the neck back on, and string it up. Edit: I did just find that crocus cloth puts a nice shine on them. While the neck was off, I tapped it, and it was a dud. I wondered; "Did I screw the tuners in?" Nope. They are in there snug, but they weren't screwed down. I have the cover off and the screws on the table so I won't forget to do that. |
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