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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:36 pm 
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In the immortal words of Rodney King- "Can we all get along?"
Whenever I buy something from the eBay site I analyze the feedback data and try to evaluate the risk involved in dealing with the person or company I am sending my money to. I realize that it is just postings from people who have their own unique expectations (realistic or not) of how the transaction should transpire and how they have been treated by the seller - but it does give an indication of what to expect and how I may be treated.
From reading the previous thread Barry cited, and which many of us contributed to, I get the impression the customer service at Stew Mac has slipped (a lot). If we attribute to them the same level of service we get from the sellers of the Middle Kingdom we may be less dissatisfied.
Reading Barry's original posting, my impression was it was along the lines of - "didn't you get the memo" beehive laughing6-hehe But some are not as callow as myself. Whenever I get an angry reply from someone, I think the person misinterpreted my intentions (or they were off their meds....).
For those who believe in it, this might be a good thread to review:
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=54336

P.S. - The library where my wife works sent out some banning letters to some kids who cut up the seat cushions in the teen room with a switchblade. Why would people destroy their own space and make it unpleasant to be there?



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:42 pm 
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Quote:
In the immortal words of Rodney King- "Can we all get along?"


Hardly immortal words, and truly - a poor choice if looking for guidance and inspiration. Mr. King had a rap sheet a couple feet long, and dang sure not a hero or role model.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:54 pm 
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Chris Pile wrote:
Quote:
In the immortal words of Rodney King- "Can we all get along?"


Hardly immortal words, and truly - a poor choice if looking for guidance and inspiration. Mr. King had a rap sheet a couple feet long, and dang sure not a hero or role model.



How 'bout humor?
At least he was trying to help.....



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:52 pm 
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Good intent carries little weight in history.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:41 am 
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joshnothing wrote:
The decision to slow down their customer service response times and reduce the channels they can be contacted on is clearly a deliberate one. In effect they are gradually taking themselves out of the market as a viable source for anyone doing luthiery on a commercial basis, as a business relying on a supplier cannot accept 48hr+ response times to simple queries.

Looking at their catalogue now vs years gone by, it’s clear their focus is increasingly on the hobbiest market - pedal kids, a plethora of parts for hot rodding cheaper import guitars etc. Even tool-wise a lot of their newer designs seem more about helping the semi-skilled do simple work on their own axes vs any kind of innovation.

One of the most noticeable changes is that they no longer offer price breaks for ordering bulk quantities of some small parts (electronics components, bindings, bridge pins etc)

This all might make sense for their bottom line as a business but it feels like the end of an era to me. They have a lot of accumulated good will among their customers. I wonder how long it will last.


These are all great concerns Josh and Stewmac should be reading this thread. I view my going on the nut here as an opportunity for StewMac (but not my blood pressure...) to improve and have a view of what is "critical to quality" in Six Sigma speak to StewMac's market.

Great comments man I appreciate you Josh.

StewMac did contact me, more on this in a minute in this thread.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:42 am 
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Jim Watts wrote:
At least they bothered to get back to you, they never even bothered to get back to me.
Although they send me a marketing email every day.


Yeah that really bothers me, they spam me but won't answer the phone. Great comment they need to hear this.

They did contact me, more below.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:49 am 
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doncaparker wrote:
jfmckenna wrote:
joshnothing wrote:
The decision to slow down their customer service response times and reduce the channels they can be contacted on is clearly a deliberate one. In effect they are gradually taking themselves out of the market as a viable source for anyone doing luthiery on a commercial basis, as a business relying on a supplier cannot accept 48hr+ response times to simple queries.

Looking at their catalogue now vs years gone by, it’s clear their focus is increasingly on the hobbiest market - pedal kids, a plethora of parts for hot rodding cheaper import guitars etc. Even tool-wise a lot of their newer designs seem more about helping the semi-skilled do simple work on their own axes vs any kind of innovation.

One of the most noticeable changes is that they no longer offer price breaks for ordering bulk quantities of some small parts (electronics components, bindings, bridge pins etc)

This all might make sense for their bottom line as a business but it feels like the end of an era to me. They have a lot of accumulated good will among their customers. I wonder how long it will last.


I just went to look at their site and they don't even have any acoustic guitar tops for sale. That's crazy. Last year I bought some really nice torrified red spruce tops. Expensive but excellent quality.


Actually, they do. But they now categorize tops in a way that is counterintuitive. "Woodstax" doesn't include tops, for some dumb*** reason. Here is a link:

https://www.stewmac.com/tonewoods/shop- ... ht-guitar/

I hate seeing any business throw away its superpower, but this business seems hell-bent to do just that.


Hey Don, hope you are doing great. They did contact me and more on this below. I don't think this is intentional I think it's simply a poor response to the pandemic that clearly has a bad look from our perspective. I have a feeling that we may see some changes because of this thread and my unique method of going to WWIII when I feel ripped off. :)

If I had to guess we may see some changes now for the better and that's my hope too. I would not write them off and again they have superb people but made the mistake of believing that technology acting as a buffer between superb people and their clients would not offend and let down. They were wrong.... and need to change it.

I'm chuckling because you are usually the one who moderates me when I get upset and now I'm asking you to not write off Stewmac. :) A role reversal of sorts. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:50 am 
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Carey wrote:
The 'Trade Secrets' found in Stew-Mac's nice old print catalogs were a help to me, and I saved a bunch of them. Just pulled them out of my file to review, in fact. Things like that and the quick customer service responses made it a pleasure to deal with them then.


Carey exactly! I would not be a luthier today if it had not been for the first Stewmac kit that I assembled in my hotel room in Sunnyvale.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 3:52 am 
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Dan Miller wrote:
Apropos to the subject at hand, I posted about a mediocre transaction with StewMac on the other thread. But when it came time to source parts to get back on a PJ Bass build I started a few years ago, I ended up shopping around and sourced the rest of the parts from LMII and bestbassgear.com - the LMII order was delivered on a Sunday (!), and the bbg order had one bit backordered. I was notified right away, and the complete order was shipped well before their estimate.

Related to the side topic of amp building, I've built three so far, and am working on a fourth. Didn't use kits, though, instead sourced the parts on my own. If you haven't already, check out the Shock Brothers https://www.tdpri.com/forums/shock-brothers-diy-amps.49/ over at TDPRI.


Hi Dan and thanks for this, very much appreciated. Thanks for the Shock Brothers (great name :) ) too I'll be checking them out. This amp building is a LOT of fun.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:02 am 
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Barry Daniels wrote:
I am sure that some will not consider this kosher, but here is a PM Hesh sent to me after my question, "Did you not read the other thread on this topic?":

"Please do not attempt to interfere with my sharing on this site, I won't have it. If you don't like what I post don't read it. Your reply to me sucked, lacked empathy and was critical. That's crap...

Hesh"


I would admit that my question was a bit passive/aggressive, but I think it was fair. Why would you spend several thousand dollars at a site that is obviously having serious customer service problems as described here on this forum?

The only reason I posted his PM on the open forum is the semi-threatening nature of it.


Barry it's really too bad that empathy is not something that you would have afforded me. It's also too bad that you pushed back on me when I was struggling with a poor customer service response from StewMac and now call my not accepting your BS reply "semi-threatening..." You have NOT been threatened, grow-up and again if you can't accept what I post don't read it. That's not a threat man it's a recommendation and notice that you are off the mark if you intend to interact successful with me....

Thanks for your comments, sincerely....

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:07 am 
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rbuddy wrote:
There have been obvious changes in what StuMac offers, delivery, and support -- no question there.

I did a little digging and couldn't find anything indicating a change in ownership or management but it isn't always easy to find info on privately held companies.

But I'm not ready to throw them under the bus.

We are ALL seeing major supply chain disruptions, shortages across the board and price inflation in everything from nuts to bridges of ALL kinds.

Help wanted signs are in the windows of nearly every business and people willing to work are hard to come by.

Maybe StuMac is doing the best they can under the circumstances. Lack of products on their web site could be sitting offshore in the container ships that can't get into port backed up by the lack of truck drivers to deliver.

What's a company to do? Is it more important for employees to answer the phone or fill orders putting products in boxes?

We will see what happens but I'm not trashing them till I know more. These are not normal times in business that's for sure.

Heck, I've been paying $10 for 2x4's and it cost me $12 to get enough burger to make a meatloaf. A year ago I could get 2 steaks for that either way!

I know others have mentioned some of these points in the current StuMac chronicles but I've had major issues with ordering and shipping for the past year of all kinds and second to none in the prior 50+.

Just sayin'


Brian you're right and they are stepping up to make it good. I'm hoping that they also move to begin answering a phone again too. As Josh and others expressed for those of us with commercial pressures aka real clients.... we need our supply chain to be responsive and reliable. StewMac used to be both but they relied on technology to replace humans with the dang "contact us" button. It's failing obviously.

You know even the old automated phone menu lets us hit "0" with no instructions to do so and get a human.... StewMac needs to bring their humans back into dealing directly with customers.


Thanks for your very well thought out comments Brian I agree with you on all points. It's not easy to operate in this pandemic for sure.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:09 am 
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Darrel Friesen wrote:
Barry Daniels wrote:
I am sure that some will not consider this kosher, but here is a PM Hesh sent to me after my question, "Did you not read the other thread on this topic?":

"Please do not attempt to interfere with my sharing on this site, I won't have it. If you don't like what I post don't read it. Your reply to me sucked, lacked empathy and was critical. That's crap...

Hesh"


I would admit that my question was a bit passive/aggressive, but I think it was fair. Why would you spend several thousand dollars at a site that is obviously having serious customer service problems as described here on this forum?

The only reason I posted his PM on the open forum is the semi-threatening nature of it.


I've certainly "known" you for many years Barry. A lot of good, some verging on condescending and some bad. Take a deep look at yourself before claiming purity status. Just my 20 years of seeing your posts and opinions of course. Posting the PM you did, which isn't even close to threatening is pretty low. Peace.


He's had issues with me for a while but I'm willing to let it go and that's not why we are here. I appreciate this Darrel and feel the same way and so do others who contacted me when my PM was posted publicly. That's crap for sure but let's move on please? Thanks Darrel.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:15 am 
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Barry Daniels wrote:
At least I keep things in the open instead of sending PMs like the above.
And where did I claim purity? I would readily admit that I can be a grumpy old fart, but I try to helpful and provide advice for those seeking answers. If the consensus here is that I am in the wrong, I will gladly exit.


Barry I am looking to shine a light on poor StewMac customer service and not fight with you or make you feel less than welcome. You are an important part of this forum and you were very helpful to me when I was starting out. I thank you kindly for all you do here and have done for me too.

I don't mind really that you posted my PM it was crafted with the idea that it may be posted.

Let's move past this please? Polarizing the forum (we both are participating in this and should stop) does not get us our old Stewmac back or build better guitars does it. I'm sorry if I offended you but I again will let you know that I am who I am and that's not changing. If what I post offends you please consider not reading it. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:17 am 
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Clay S. wrote:
In the immortal words of Rodney King- "Can we all get along?"
Whenever I buy something from the eBay site I analyze the feedback data and try to evaluate the risk involved in dealing with the person or company I am sending my money to. I realize that it is just postings from people who have their own unique expectations (realistic or not) of how the transaction should transpire and how they have been treated by the seller - but it does give an indication of what to expect and how I may be treated.
From reading the previous thread Barry cited, and which many of us contributed to, I get the impression the customer service at Stew Mac has slipped (a lot). If we attribute to them the same level of service we get from the sellers of the Middle Kingdom we may be less dissatisfied.
Reading Barry's original posting, my impression was it was along the lines of - "didn't you get the memo" beehive laughing6-hehe But some are not as callow as myself. Whenever I get an angry reply from someone, I think the person misinterpreted my intentions (or they were off their meds....).
For those who believe in it, this might be a good thread to review:
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopi ... 01&t=54336

P.S. - The library where my wife works sent out some banning letters to some kids who cut up the seat cushions in the teen room with a switchblade. Why would people destroy their own space and make it unpleasant to be there?


Well said, for once ;) Thanks Clay, much appreciated.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:29 am 
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OK the update:

Brock who is on my friends list on Facebook saw a negative review that I left on TrustPilot yesterday and PMed me on Facebook. He wanted to help and did and I am grateful for his help.

He contacted the customer service manager and they put Tommy at Stewmac in direct email contact with me. Tommy is in the SM videos building these kits and is someone that you just know you would like in person if you got to meet him.

They have had this issue with the cabinet supplier twice now and I seem to be the first one with the issue in the new batch of cabinets. Tommy says they know about the issue and that the manufacturer used a jig for hole spacing that was corrupted and wrong and I got one of these cabs....

So he has offered to replace the cab and that works for me.

I expect things to go wrong at times, I've been alive a long time, 65 years this coming week... but it's how an organization steps-up and makes it right that matters most to me. Stewmac is doing that here and that makes me whole again.

I would like to expand my complaint and desired resolution to include StwMac reviving the customer service rep who we can call during business hours and think that this would be an improvement for ALL OF US (and no I am not yelling I'm just ancient and don't know that using capital letter is yelling in the Internet age) :)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and Barry you are a very valued forum member and I am keen to get along with you and not offend you. I know I have a duty to others here to not pee in the collective canteen either. So let's not argue please? That's my intent, let's please build something instead of fighting. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:10 am 
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No issues with Stewmac, beyond them carrying some merely adequate tools (their own fret pullers and nippers) when better are available (Hosco).

That said, I am concerned with forum software that causes the grammatically odd but NYT/WaPo headline-like 'Stewart Macdonald Has the Worst Customer Service Now Sadly' to the Twitter flashback-producing 'Stewart Macdonald Has the Worst Customer Service Now Sad'

Much like an annoying 80's pop melody stuck in my head or (as seven-year-old) walking into my parent's bedroom during designated 'mommy and daddy' time, I find that I cannot un-hear or un-see that slight but significant trumpcation of the last word in the title.

Please, Mr. Breakstone, make it go away. Stewmac versus Stewart Macdonald would do the trick.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:19 am 
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Woodie G wrote:
No issues with Stewmac, beyond them carrying some merely adequate tools (their own fret pullers and nippers) when better are available (Hosco).

That said, I am concerned with forum software that causes the grammatically odd but NYT/WaPo headline-like 'Stewart Macdonald Has the Worst Customer Service Now Sadly' to the Twitter flashback-producing 'Stewart Macdonald Has the Worst Customer Service Now Sad'

Much like an annoying 80's pop melody stuck in my head or (as seven-year-old) walking into my parent's bedroom during designated 'mommy and daddy' time, I find that I cannot un-hear or un-see that slight but significant trumpcation of the last word in the title.

Please, Mr. Breakstone, make it go away. Stewmac versus Stewart Macdonald would do the trick.


Thanks Woodie you are right and I have edited the title of my thread. Good suggestion, thank You.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:23 am 
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Focusing on helping StewMac not lose what makes it great (the only thing about which I wish to comment in this thread):

I would understand if they have trouble staffing a phone line all the time during business hours with someone who has both knowledge and authority to fix problems. That is a big commitment. But I think they need to realize that they went too far in the other direction. It should not take the effort Hesh had to invest in order to get a resolution. If I have to take extreme measures to tell you what my problem is, and get a substantive response (not “we are experiencing a high volume of calls” or “your call is important to us” or “let me ask a specialist to call you next week” ), then you are failing to provide good customer service. And to be brutally honest, StewMac, if you stop providing at least good customer service (great is what you should provide, but good is the bare minimum), there is no reason for me to buy from you. There are OK quality knock-offs of your products on eBay. Your competitors (LMI, etc.) offer lots of alternatives to your products. Many of the items you repackage I can buy elsewhere at a better price. If you continue down this path of not providing sufficient communication opportunities to customers, you will be killing the one thing—the ONE thing—that gives you a competitive edge. Why any business thinks that is good business is a mystery. But it happens. I just hope it stops happening to you.

If you want a reasonable compromise, have a phone number with voicemail. Have the person responsible for returning calls do so within a few hours. Also have an email address with a similar turnaround time. If the person dealing with this has time an a specific day and time to staff the desk, then take the calls or emails right then. If that person has other things going on in the moment, then commit to a half day response time. That is good service. This nonsense about not providing any follow-up communication methods is insanely frustrating for your customers, so stop it, for your own sake.

And for Pete’s sake, explain the difference between Woodstax and your regular stock, and quit hiding your regular stock. That’s just bad website design. Somebody deserves a stern sit-down talk over that nonsense.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:20 am 
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Hesh wrote:
I'm chuckling because you are usually the one who moderates me when I get upset and now I'm asking you to not write off Stewmac. :) A role reversal of sorts. :)


I thought it was the daily MJ that mostly took the edge off of Hesh, but I’m flattered if I sometimes play a small part, too. :lol: I hope all is well with you, also. I’m glad StewMac is stepping up on your amp kit.

Staying true to what Hesh references, and not aimed at anyone in particular (or I guess it is aimed at everyone): we all benefit from being civil with, and forgiving of, each other on this forum. It would be awesome if we could maximize the bits and bytes devoted to information about building guitars and related stuff, and minimize the amount we spend on pissing each other off. What it takes to get there is individual self restraint. I fail at that from time to time; we all do. But we can all move forward and try harder to make good choices.

Watch Ted Lasso. That show gets the point across really well.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:56 am 
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Oh I see now. That is not a very good navigational design on their website so have that Woodstax right up front like that. I basically walked away thinking they don't sell top wood any more. But now I see it, thanks.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:16 am 
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jfmckenna wrote:
Oh I see now. That is not a very good navigational design on their website so have that Woodstax right up front like that. I basically walked away thinking they don't sell top wood any more. But now I see it, thanks.


No worries; your reaction was completely normal. StewMac's web design causes this problem, plain and simple.

So, stew (pun intended) on that for a moment. This business doesn't do print catalogs any more. It has never had a walk-in location. It has cut off telephone communication. All their eggs are in the basket of their web page, and daily email ads, supplemented by things like sponsoring a forum here, putting an ad in a professional publication there, etc., all of which funnel buyers to the website. They really, really should want to make their website outstanding. It is pretty good, but when someone like you leaves the website reasonably thinking that StewMac doesn't sell top wood, that's a problem that needs correcting.

StewMac needs to get a handle on the fact that all of this criticism by all of us is meant to help them succeed. If they ignore it, they deserve to fail, like any other business that ignores what its most loyal customers want.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:24 am 
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I'm late to this thread but glad to hear it worked out for Hesh. I'll throw my .02 cents in. I live in Dayton and StuMac is only an hour away. I had an issue 2 weeks ago with one of their guitar holding jigs I use while spraying. The welded joint on the jig failed. I contacted StuMac via email and they replied within 48 hours with an offer to send me a brand new part. Additionally, I had two other holders they were going to inspect, but because I had already modified them by adding JB Weld to be on the safe side, they offered me a $40 gift credit for anything I wanted. I was very happy with their service and response.

On a side note, while some of their tools are average and overpriced, I find most of their stuff has lasted me MANY years and I'm usually happy to pay a little more for a tool/jig that works exactly as it should.

Finally, as a member of their shipping club, I love the fact I can order anything, and get free shipping. I've logged on and ordered many small parts and supplies I would have otherwise waited for because I don't like paying $12 shipping on a $5 part. Cheers to all, I hope you all get the same service I've had.



These users thanked the author John Elshaw for the post: Hesh (Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:35 am)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:43 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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John Elshaw wrote:
I'm late to this thread but glad to hear it worked out for Hesh. I'll throw my .02 cents in. I live in Dayton and StuMac is only an hour away. I had an issue 2 weeks ago with one of their guitar holding jigs I use while spraying. The welded joint on the jig failed. I contacted StuMac via email and they replied within 48 hours with an offer to send me a brand new part. Additionally, I had two other holders they were going to inspect, but because I had already modified them by adding JB Weld to be on the safe side, they offered me a $40 gift credit for anything I wanted. I was very happy with their service and response.

On a side note, while some of their tools are average and overpriced, I find most of their stuff has lasted me MANY years and I'm usually happy to pay a little more for a tool/jig that works exactly as it should.

Finally, as a member of their shipping club, I love the fact I can order anything, and get free shipping. I've logged on and ordered many small parts and supplies I would have otherwise waited for because I don't like paying $12 shipping on a $5 part. Cheers to all, I hope you all get the same service I've had.


Hi John yes StewMac has always been top notch so that is why I was offended that I could not speak to a human being and might have to wait 48 hours as well.

I have strongly suggested to StewMac that they need to answer their dang phone now and republish the number. This pandemic may be with us forever more in one form or another time to find work arounds and get busy again.

We don't purchase much from StewMac beyond replacement nut files when I wear mine out doing a couple dozen jobs a week but we are sure glad to have them out here.

Good to have you back here too John.

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These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: CraigG (Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:34 am)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:59 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Going to the Stew Mac website and searching for tops I had the same problem as many others. Clicking on "Tonewoods" takes you to "Woodstax- shop Tonewoods by the Piece", and then clicking on "acoustic soundboards and tops" shows "0". Perhaps they should put "woodstax" under wood parts, just below soundboards and tops listing or do away with the "soundboards and tops" listing under woodstax since they don't offer any anyway. I don't buy soundboards from StewMac because I prefer to support those who are cutting the tops directly, so it doesn't really matter to me.
I think another way StewMac is shooting themselves in the foot is by doing away with the price discounts for multiple purchases, while offering the Stewmax service. You may as well do JIT multiple orders rather than buying more than you need to get the discount. The discount was also a way to make the price more competitive for us cheapskates who don't pay for the Stewmax service (don't need to order often).
It is possible that the "old StewMac model" of great customer service wasn't working (not enough pro repair people buying that need that level of support) and that the "Big Box" store model which has caused so many small stores to close works better. Or that nothing will work and they will fold their tent.



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post: Hesh (Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:16 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 12:20 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Clay S. wrote:
Going to the Stew Mac website and searching for tops I had the same problem as many others. Clicking on "Tonewoods" takes you to "Woodstax- shop Tonewoods by the Piece", and then clicking on "acoustic soundboards and tops" shows "0". Perhaps they should put "woodstax" under wood parts, just below soundboards and tops listing or do away with the "soundboards and tops" listing under woodstax since they don't offer any anyway. I don't buy soundboards from StewMac because I prefer to support those who are cutting the tops directly, so it doesn't really matter to me.
I think another way StewMac is shooting themselves in the foot is by doing away with the price discounts for multiple purchases, while offering the Stewmax service. You may as well do JIT multiple orders rather than buying more than you need to get the discount. The discount was also a way to make the price more competitive for us cheapskates who don't pay for the Stewmax service (don't need to order often).
It is possible that the "old StewMac model" of great customer service wasn't working (not enough pro repair people buying that need that level of support) and that the "Big Box" store model which has caused so many small stores to close works better. Or that nothing will work and they will fold their tent.


We very rarely order anything from StewMac or LMI now. These companies were great when I was a hobbyist and even greater for the sharing of useful information, videos, well documented kits etc. But as a pro we make our own stuff or go to the same manufacture that Stewmac may use and purchase direct.

With this said I suspect that StewMac gets most of their business from the hobbyist but I do not know or sure. I do know that we don't even order anything from them annually and may go a few years between orders.

I also know that I would not be a Luthier today if it was not for a well documented StewMac dr*ead kit that I assembled in a hotel over some months in California. It's their fault :)

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