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 Post subject: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:35 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
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Bad idea?
Too …. Splitty?


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:02 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
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First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Use birch plywood instead, it will never split.

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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:04 pm 
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Koa
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I normally use mahogany . The spruce question is because of weight. I’m all for lightening the instrument if possible , at least something like a block


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:17 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:10 pm
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First name: Bob
Last Name: Gramann
City: Fredericksburg
State: VA
Zip/Postal Code: 22408
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I use a spruce tail block around half an inch thick with an inch wide, about an eighth inch thick cross piece going across the grain from the top to the bottom of the guitar. It makes for a lighter guitar. I’ve never had an issue with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:09 pm 
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First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
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State: Washington
I've been using spruce tail blocks on guitars and octave mandolins. No problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:20 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
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First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Spruce sounds fine. I think what is needed is some crossgrain split prevention, so that a bump on the endpin doesn't split the tailblock and the sides.

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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:00 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
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First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I use spruce mostly cause I’ve got boxes of it left from the old days. Technically a cross grain lam would be a good idea, but I’ve never had a problem. Grain direction perpendicular to the sides. I don’t use tapered end pins.


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:11 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Posts: 5924
Spruce glued cross grain to the sides as Ed does it is probably O.K., still I prefer 1/2 inch "Baltic birch" plywood as Peter mentioned. You never know how people will drill into end blocks and what devices will be installed in them.
I have seen a number of guitars with split end blocks and long splits in both sides, where they were likely dropped on their end pin.
I know saving a few grams here and there can add up to a lighter instrument over all, but that might be possible to do by making the end block slightly narrower and slightly thinner, or laying up a cross ply of spruce (might be something to do with off cuts or tops that don't make the grade bliss )


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:20 am 
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Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
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Focus: Repair
I have repaired quite a few split tail blocks and a fair amount of split sides to go with them. As a result, for my builds I also use 1/2" baltic birch for tail blocks. It's light and it will never split.

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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:02 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:00 pm
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First name: Josh
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You could always lay up some cross grain laminations of the spruce and make lightweight plywood of yer own :D



These users thanked the author joshnothing for the post: SnowManSnow (Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:43 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:04 pm 
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I'm curious, what's you thought on why you want to remove weight from the tail block?

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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:19 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6232
Location: Virginia
Spruce was used on the head and tail block of Selmer guitars.

It's all in how you design, it's perfect suitable in the right design.


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 6:35 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
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Jim Watts wrote:
I'm curious, what's you thought on why you want to remove weight from the tail block?

I guess it’s more of a mass / weight thing.
My reasoning is I don’t see why I need weight or superfluous weight and mass in that particular position. It isn’t moving the top or contributing to the sound in any way I can think of.
It seems to my teeny brain that removing mass like extra tail block material can only contribute to a more responsive guitar all around.

Then again I could be horribly misguided :)


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:07 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
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I have heard that some people add mass to the tail block to help offset the neck heaviness and make the guitar balance better..
There are so many contradictory schools of thought you can build a guitar however you want and find justifications for doing it that way - and it will probably still sound like a guitar. bliss


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:33 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1700
Clay S. wrote:
I have heard that some people add mass to the tail block to help offset the neck heaviness and make the guitar balance better..
There are so many contradictory schools of thought you can build a guitar however you want and find justifications for doing it that way - and it will probably still sound like a guitar. bliss

I do know that mass in areas definitely changes the sound and movement of the thing. That said, although it would be cool for a guitar to balance at a certain point I’ve never had one in my lap and thought..,, wow this feels weird because it’s not balanced.
I have had guitars in my lap and thought, “this sounds dead”, or “I can’t feel the guitar move when it’s against me”…

Also I do take a certain joy when someone picks up one of my guitars and they say… wow this is light… not sure why… fortunately they like how it sounds too haha

Don’t get me wrong, cutting ounces isn’t an obsession I have … I just find it interesting how mass affects things in different ways

Still learning


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:16 am 
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Thanks for the reply to my question. I asked because I don't think of tail block material having an impact on making a responsive guitar. I mostly think of the components that move and have contact with the strings. I consider the tail block a structural element and have used mahogany, baltic birch and probably a few other things too. Sometimes I'll make a thin tail block and laminate a cross grain piece of something to it to help prevent spitting.
As a side note; I have a friend that has a guitar with a mass loaded peghead and it was unbalanced to hold. Fortunately this guitar has a trap door in the tail block and it was simple for him to add some weight to the tail block and balance it out. Sounds great by the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:26 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3867
Location: United States
Using a skew cut block would give it the most splitting resistance. Avoid flat cut, with the ring lines parallel to the plane of the sides; that's the most likely to split. I've always run the gain of the block across the sides.

I like willow for end blocks, as it has much more split resistance than spruce, but about the same density.


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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:13 am
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First name: Tim
Last Name: Allen
City: San Francisco
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I make cross laminated spruce head and end blocks using top material that isn't good enough for tops. I have some that came as packing material, and some other tops I ended up with one way or another. It probably doesn't make a significant weight difference but the simple task of making the plywood is kind of soothing. It lightens my mood.

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These users thanked the author TimAllen for the post (total 2): joshnothing (Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:51 am) • Robbie_McD (Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:51 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Spruce tail block?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:31 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 951
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
We can do things as amateur (aka unpaid) builders that don't get done when the meter's running.

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Peter Havriluk



These users thanked the author phavriluk for the post: SnowManSnow (Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:29 pm)
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