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Classical Guitars
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Author:  dofthesea [ Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Classical Guitars
So I'm curious about classical guitars now. Who are some of the better current day builders?

I'm not at all familiar with classic. Ive ordered a Hausser and a Torres plan for research.

What are some of the better classical forums. I don't see much on here.
Author:  joshnothing [ Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
There’s a luthiers sub forum at Classical Guitar Delcamp that is frequented by a few pros of some repute as well as the usual enthusiastic amateurs. Plenty of good info. Research-wise, Courtnall’s book “Making Master Guitars” is well worth a read, as it contains specs and bracing details for guitars from a lot of the seminal makers from Torres on forward. Gives you a good look into just how Hauser’s guitars differed from Torres or Bouchet and the different regional traditions that sprang up in Western Europe.

Jose Romanillos (RIP) published “Making A Spanish Guitar”, which is a good resource if you want to hear it straight from the horses mouth, that horse being one of the most prominent modern classical builders in the Torres tradition. :D Stock up on cascamite.
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
When it comes to classical guitars "better" is somewhat subjective. The traditional Spanish model has been augmented with modern lattice braced and double topped designs that can provide extra volume which some players prefer. Some modern builders - Greg Smallman, Mathias Dammann, and of course, Trevor Gore, who often contributes to the discussions on this forum and has published guitar making books. Alan Carruth also builds classicals and is another valuable resource available to us.
Author:  dofthesea [ Thu Aug 11, 2022 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
Josh I already ordered Making Classical Guitars. haha I'll check out Making A Spanish Guitar

Clay is it no different in the steel string world? Thanks for the builders name.
Author:  Dave m2 [ Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
The Delcamp forum is very useful as Josh said.

The drawing of Torres SE114 from the GAL is an excellent start for a fan braced classical. I use it as the basis for my classicals though since I do a cutaway it is not quite in the tradition! It is surprising just how small the bracing is - like about 2.5 mm high for the fans, but that is how you get the responsiveness.

Good luck Dave
Author:  Skarsaune [ Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
I ran up on John Bogdanovich's Classical Guitar Making in the used book store a couple of weeks ago and bought it figuring I can always learn something.

https://www.jsbguitars.com/classical-gu ... king-book/

I'd be glad to pass it along if you're interested in more reading material. I'm curious, but not likely to get away from steel strings for years.

It's definitely focused on the first time builder, but I've enjoyed it.
Author:  dofthesea [ Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
Chuck id love to have it. Let me know what to send you via PayPal.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Aug 12, 2022 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
I use this often. British designer and wood worker David Pye wrote:
" Where the problem is old, the old solutions will nearly always be best (unless a new technique has been introduced) because it is inconceivable that all of the designers of ten or twenty generations will have been fools"

Bogdanovitch's method is unusual, particularly in the use of laminated sides. Some folks who have elected to go that route have talked about the amount of time they've spent making jigs before ever getting around to making guitar parts.

The 'enhancements', such as lattice (Smallman) or 'sandwich' (Damann/Wagner) top construction are not universally embraced by the larger Classical guitar world, despite having been around for decades. Many players feel that they don't have the proper timbre to fit the standard repertoire.

At least to begin with it's probably better to stick with a traditional approach that requires minimal tooling up. There's plenty to do in just learning to make one that way. If you use a good design and decent materials, and work carefully, you should end up with an instrument that is better than 'average', if only because so many at the lower end are so poorly made.

I'm not familiar with his book on construction, but, as Josh said, Romanillos knew the instrument about as well as anybody. I suspect it would be hard to do better for instruction. I'd skip Cascamite, though: regular Titebond works well, and if you want to take the effort to learn about hot hide glue that would be repaid. (Don't use liquid/cold hide glue, though).

In any highly optimized design the objective difference between an 'average' example and a very good one will be small, but also very important. Good guitar makers know how to 'read' the wood they use, both through objective measurements and by feel and tap tone, and will constantly make adjustments in dimensions even brace layout to obtain the best results. That's one reason why very few top Classical guitar players use factory instruments; a factory can't change things 'on the fly' as an individual can. It takes a long time to get to that pint as a maker. As with planting trees, the best time to start is a few decades ago, and the next best time is now.
Author:  dofthesea [ Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
Hi Alan, thanks for the info. I have built a lot of electrical and acoustic steel string guitars and ukuleles. I have all the tools and jigs at my disposal. I just want to try my hand at classical's. it makes sense that the tried and true methods are the go to methods. I'm a big fan of traditional style instruments at least during the learning process. As how can one modify tradition without an understanding of where things start.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
Hi David,
I know you have experience building instruments, and as such the book Josh mentioned -Courtnall's "Making Master Guitars" may be all the reference you need to gain familiarity with traditional construction. It showcases some of the early makers and a few that have recently passed, and has drawings and dimensions of their instruments.
Author:  dofthesea [ Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
Clay I've already ordered. Can't wait to see and start analyzing.
Author:  ThomLuth [ Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
Alan Carruth wrote:
I use this often. British designer and wood worker David Pye wrote:
" Where the problem is old, the old solutions will nearly always be best (unless a new technique has been introduced) because it is inconceivable that all of the designers of ten or twenty generations will have been fools"

Bogdanovitch's method is unusual, particularly in the use of laminated sides.


Laminated sides cannot be too unusual, the Ramirez 1a had laminated sides. During the 1980's, more 1a guitars came in with their owners than any other single make/model of classical guitar. That could be a Los Angeles thing, since many of the players were from the USC guitar program. More recently, Trevor Gore and Gerard Gilet have, at least in my opinion, made a very strong case for the benefits of the laminated sides. I would certainly agree however, that making the laminating mold the way Bogdanovitch does can be a big project for someone without a wide array of tools and experience, and become a disincentive to finishing the first build. So in that case, it might be best to save the use of laminated sides for down the road.
Author:  dofthesea [ Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
I noticed on Bogdanovitch website he sales the laminated forms. fyi
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
If you have a bending form you can use it as a laminating form by using a piece of kerf kore or perhaps an old tambour - anything that can be clamped to hold the pieces tightly together.
Author:  rlrhett [ Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
What do you line your forms with to prevent sticking? Or do you wrap your sides in something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  jfrench79 [ Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
I line my laminating form with thin packing tape, works well.
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
rlrhett wrote:
What do you line your forms with to prevent sticking? Or do you wrap your sides in something?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Hi Randolph,
I place a piece of waxpaper above and below the wood being laminated to keep it from being glued to the forms.
Author:  AndyB [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
Build a Hauser replica. http://schrammguitars.com/Online_Apprentice.html

David Schramm walks you through a simple, practical, build. It will expose you to a traditional classical guitar. It's a page by page guide, not too much info, not too little. You can walk the build pages like short stories, methodically advancing. You can read other books, as desired, for supplemental information. With fair woodworking skills and Schramm's build "class" you can create a quality, classical guitar.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
I started off building classical guitars and think so far I have built about 15 of them. I tried 'modern' bracing systems and even a double top but the best sounding ones I built were fan braced Torres designs. I do have some to build on my list in the next year and they will be Torres design, 7 fan braces. They just sound like what you would expect.

The double top is indeed loud but it just does not have that rich and for lack of a better word romantic Spanish classical tone.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Classical Guitars
jfmckenna wrote:
I started off building classical guitars and think so far I have built about 15 of them. I tried 'modern' bracing systems and even a double top but the best sounding ones I built were fan braced Torres designs. I do have some to build on my list in the next year and they will be Torres design, 7 fan braces. They just sound like what you would expect.

The double top is indeed loud but it just does not have that rich and for lack of a better word romantic Spanish classical tone.


+1 for the Torres fan braced guitar. The construction is relatively straight forward and allows for fine tuning. The "Spanish sound" was attractive enough for Hermann Hauser to switch from the ladder braced model he originally used to Fan bracing. It still allows for enough variation to create distinctively different instruments.
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