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 Post subject: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:30 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 271
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
I spent the last part of the summer rebuilding a decrepit deck, then thought I could just jump back into my latest guitar build. Sometimes I think I'm just not detail oriented enough to build a guitar that doesn't need a myriad of repairs during the build...
Image

Good news is I have the cutoff that matches, bad news is I have minimal high confidence level in doing an acceptable repair. I remember reading that it takes 10 guitars to really learn how to make a decent one. So naturally I wanted the fourth to be my no repair guitar. I thought then mebbe I could ask how to change my stated focus from repair (which I really only do on every one of my own builds) to build. Not gonna happen yet. I also have problems with the slot head I'm trying to repair too. I'm hoping to build a good enough fixture and rout the slots on my next neck. I just can't get decent results drilling parallel holes and trying to smooth the sides. But I'm at least gonna take a stab at cleaning up my problems on this one. Will post again if I can show anything that looks decent from mebbe 5 feet. Guess for now I was just looking for commiseration. Roy


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:39 pm 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:25 pm
Posts: 87
Location: Ontario, Canada
First name: Colleen
Last Name: McTigue
City: St. Catharines
State: Ontario
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I can definitely commiserate. If you haven’t already, have a look at my “Guitar #1, warts ‘n all” thread. I’m definitely learning how to repair mistakes, usually major ones. And I’m only on my first guitar, at least you have the pride of 3 completed ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:44 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 271
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Thanks, Colleen. I'll hunt for your thread. Roy


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 2:48 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 2:59 pm
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First name: Marcus
Last Name: Bailie
City: Kirkland
State: WA
Focus: Build
The difference between a beginner and a master craftsman is frequently just an acute ability (built from experience) to fix your mistakes.

You have options here. For one idea, You could start an inlay here that continues up to the heel cap.

I am on guitar 25 and I still make gut-wrenching mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:05 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:28 pm
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First name: Chuck
Last Name: Skarsaune
City: Butler
State: TN
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Marcus wrote:
You have options here. For one idea, You could start an inlay here that continues up to the heel cap.


Exactly - make it a feature, don't try to hide it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 5:01 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
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First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I’m over 300 in and still making stupid mistakes. It just happens.

But yeah, you’ve got an opportunity for a ‘feature’ there…


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:26 pm
Posts: 455
First name: Carl
Last Name: Dickinson
City: Forest Ranch
State: California
Zip/Postal Code: 95942
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I did that too and covered with inlay. Not sure what the pic shows, Roy. Is the neck block upside down too? That's fixable also. By the way, that's purdy wood, what is it?!! Eat Drink


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
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First name: Jay
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State: Washington
I wonder if you could describe how that happened. When people share what went wrong, it can often help other builders avoid the same problem in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:46 pm
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Location: Napa Valley
First name: David
Last Name: Foster
City: Napa
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 94558
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What they don't tell you is in the beginning. One is not an instrument builder, one is a repair/restoration person. I can't tell you how many and how big of mistakes everyone goes thru in the beginning. The funny thing it does get easier but the mistakes keep happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
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Location: Seattle WA
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Were you routing your binding ledge and your bearing fell into the mortise? Damhikt!

Pat

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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
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First name: Don
Last Name: Parker
City: Charleston
State: West Virginia
Zip/Postal Code: 25314
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Pmaj7 wrote:
Were you routing your binding ledge and your bearing fell into the mortise? Damhikt!

Pat


I’m betting on that one!



These users thanked the author doncaparker for the post: Pmaj7 (Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:30 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:00 am 
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Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
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Zip/Postal Code: 37772
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Focus: Repair
doncaparker wrote:
Pmaj7 wrote:
Were you routing your binding ledge and your bearing fell into the mortise? Damhikt!

Pat


I’m betting on that one!

My guess as well.


Steve

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"Music is what feelings sound like"


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:55 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:45 pm
Posts: 1445
First name: Michael
Last Name: Colbert
City: Anacortes
State: WA
Focus: Build
Hi Roy,

Here is my solution to a successful operation by *not* having the bearing fall into the mortise slot, plus a repair option.

Mistakes are learning!

M


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



These users thanked the author Michaeldc for the post: Pmaj7 (Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:32 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:30 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 271
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
ok, thanks everyone for the suggestions...I was just routing the back edge flush after mounting the back. The neck block in that pix does not show one of the M&T mounting holes, it's fine. I had just finished mounting the neck for adjusting the angle and flossing before mounting the back. I love the insert you show, Michael. Gonna definitely borrow that idea, thanks. I wish I was more creative and better at inlay. I'll have a fair amount of time to try a few things hoping I can come up with something that really does look like a feature rather than covering up a mistake.

Meanwhile, still trying to repair the slot work on the headstock. I showed it to my wife, who's very complimentary of anything I show her. She said throw it away and start over...but I'm nothing if not stubborn. Oh, the wood is just East Indian Rosewood. First try with a more expensive wood. I still have high hopes for it. I suspect I'll be saving up a bit for a good quality slotting fixture, the one I'm trying to make looks like a tragedy. Roy


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:33 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 271
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
BTW, Michael. Can please explain the routed square 'box' on the soundboard side picture? Assume it's a version of a more solid fretboard mount?

Roy


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:14 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:45 pm
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First name: Michael
Last Name: Colbert
City: Anacortes
State: WA
Focus: Build
flemsmith wrote:
BTW, Michael. Can please explain the routed square 'box' on the soundboard side picture? Assume it's a version of a more solid fretboard mount?

Roy


It’s a pocket for a bolt-on fretboard extension.

Make sense?

M


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:15 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5924
Roy Smith wrote:
"Meanwhile, still trying to repair the slot work on the headstock. I showed it to my wife, who's very complimentary of anything I show her. She said throw it away and start over...but I'm nothing if not stubborn. Oh, the wood is just East Indian Rosewood. First try with a more expensive wood. I still have high hopes for it. I suspect I'll be saving up a bit for a good quality slotting fixture, the one I'm trying to make looks like a tragedy. Roy"

One of the best tools I've found for cleaning up peghead slots is a laminate file. The teeth are more aggressive than on a metal working file and less aggressive than a rasp. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/tech ... ou-needed/
I use a mortising attachment on a drill press to chop out the slots, usually going half way through from both sides. Some people make a simple router jig and some people buy a more expensive one.
It is surprising how thin some makers have made the outer walls of their slotted pegheads - in some cases I have had to shorten the screws when fitting a new set of tuners so the ends didn't protrude into the slot.

Another thing I use a laminate file for is refining the binding ledge - the safe edge of the file allows you to work into the corner of the rebate and increase the depth without increasing the width.


Last edited by Clay S. on Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:52 pm
Posts: 2953
First name: Don
Last Name: Parker
City: Charleston
State: West Virginia
Zip/Postal Code: 25314
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Clay S. wrote:
in some cases I have had to shorten the screws when fitting a new set of tuners so the ends didn't protrude into the slot.


I do that anyway, just to be safe. I use an egg beater hand drill and a very small bit to drill the pilot holes, being super careful about the depth of the holes, and I snip off the pointy tips of all the screws before driving them. I have had the heartache of tuner installation being the thing that causes a crack. It's gut wrenching.


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:01 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 271
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Spent some time trying to think of a new feature I might like. Little or no creativity happened, so I thought I'd start out trying to make the issue go away and look normal...
Image
As expected, it's not perfect. But I'm pretty sure I can make it all go away with what I'm thinking of doing with the binding and purfling.
Will take quite some time, as I have a number of other things in the works, but I will update when I think it's ready for show and tell.
Appreciate all the commiseration. Always good to know my stupid mistakes are not unique. Just seem never ending.

Roy


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:47 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
Posts: 7219
First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
We should have a “Watch out for this stupid mistake” thread to go with our handy tip thread, lol. I think we’ve all probably done what you did. I know I have, several times…


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:35 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:06 am
Posts: 271
First name: Roy L
Last Name: Smith
City: Apache Junction
State: Az
Zip/Postal Code: 85119
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
probably not the most experienced guy to start such a thread, but I can contribute fer sure... Roy


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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:46 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:40 am
Posts: 1900
Location: Spokane, Washington
First name: Pat
Last Name: Foster
State: Eastern WA
Focus: Build
meddlingfool wrote:
We should have a “Watch out for this stupid mistake” thread to go with our handy tip thread, lol. I think we’ve all probably done what you did. I know I have, several times…


That could turn out to be a huge thread, especially if I contribute.

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These users thanked the author burbank for the post: Pmaj7 (Thu Oct 06, 2022 10:37 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Fourth guitar...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:39 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
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One day I’ll need to share how one my my guitars “sploded” :)


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