J De Rocher wrote:
Hesh, for clarity, could you define specifically what constitutes promoting and what doesn't? Not being flippant here. I'm sure "promoting" is taken to mean different things by different people. I believe in supporting the forum's sponsors. I have been a repeat customer of Aaron's and Bob's and I've put in a good word for both of them here on various occasions. Excellent suppliers.
Here's a specific example where I wonder if it would constitute promoting, or not. If someone posts asking for a good source of a specific type of non-mainstream wood and I know a supplier who specializes in that wood and I know they supply high quality product, am I "promoting" them if I simply answer the question by providing their name? Especially if the wood in question is not a specialty of the wood suppliers who are sponsors of the forum?
I'm sure there are other potential gray areas.
J I am not the one to ask it's Lance's forum and sand box but this need not be any more complicated than this. To me it's a matter of having some basic class and decency. I am a guest here on Lance's forum, so is everyone else except the sponsors who have a different agreement than we basic members do. When I am a guest on someone's forum (other than Elon Musk) it's important to me to act like a guest and be respectful.
I received a PM this morning that pissed me off because the author saw this as black and white and that no mention of someone other than who is a sponsor is what I speak of. This is not the case and it was a Bull puckie position to take because I even provide a path or two to bring in Lance and maybe even provide a sponsorship opportunity to the vendor.
So discuss away, bring new vendors into the forum and show them around none of this has anything to do with what I speak of. What does have everything to do with what I speak of is the repeated use of OLF infrastructure, servers, bandwidth and such to promote a vendor who is not a sponsor but to arrange an event there using the OLF to do so. That's poor form and if I was one of our sponsors I would have said so.
This is a far cry from discussing a new supplier of fret wire or someone with better end nippers. No one is attempting to stifle any conversation here and I will push back hard if that is the contention because it's a misrepresentation.
Again, to be clear I speak of having some class. If you are a guest in someone's home act like one..... that's my point. The OLF as one member to another is not an entitlement and it was not always here nor will it always be here. I appreciate the place, it helped change my life in a big and good way and I want to see the OLF live long and prosper.
So I repeat I'm a guest here, so are all of you.... and in being a guest there are things I will and will not do. I will follow Lance's rules except the dang one about cussing...
. I also won't use his bandwidth to suggest people not come here, that's pretty classless. And if I recognize that he is trying to keep the lights on and that is what sponsors are partly for I'm not going to interfere with this.
One last thing the OLF is not an entitlement. The group I learned here with were very happy to have this forum warts and all. It had low periods and high periods and it's still here nearly 20 years later. Countless new businesses were started because of the OLF and many of them have been or are currently sponsors.
Ann Arbor Gutiars was started because of the OLF, this is where I met Dave Collins.
The OLF is largely a personal achievement of Lance Kragenbrink and in my view we all owe him.
So here's a tale of how Hesh puts his money where his mouth is.
We held classes in the stuff that the woodworkers here often need help with, fretting, set-up, etc. The classes were successful but hard for everyone including us. I promoted them on the OLF without asking Lance if I could do so. I, we, Ann Arbor Gutiars were never a sponsor.
At the end of each class I proactively PayPaled Lance a percentage of our take because it was the right thing to do and we could not have done the classes for the OLF without the OLF. He appreciated what we gave him and we did it for every class we ever held. He never had to ask and we never said it was coming we just shared our take with the OLF.
We used this forum to promote a business, ours and we proactively paid for same without anyone ever asking us to do so.
Because it was the right thing to do and that's what I speak of here. Please value the OLF enough to want it, us to be successful and continue on and that requires respecting our valued sponsors as well as the membership.
Discuss whatever you want at any length you want simply be mindful that if a business entity competes with a paying sponsor here bring Lance into it so he can decide what he wants to do.
Now who wants to discuss the debt ceiling
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