| Official Luthiers Forum! https://luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Inlay glue and techniques https://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=56509 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Duct Tape [ Sun Apr 07, 2024 7:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Inlay glue and techniques |
I’m getting ready to inlay my torch ones bought from Andy DePaule on the Ebony headstocks. If one dives just a little deep on the forums and YouTube there are a host of different techniques and glues. Most choose a version of CA, some wicking it with thin, others imbedding inlay into thick CA. Craig Lavin uses ebony dust plus a black sharpie as filler adding more thin CA and then sanding. He also minimally tacks the inlay down to the headstock with Testors glue for marking. That seems like it might lead to the fragile inlay breaking when removing, even though he only uses two tiny dots of glue. The DePaule web site says to add clear tape on top of inlay when soaking to remove the backing material, cutting out the tape and then just holding the inlay piece with a finger when marking. John Hall says the ebony dust causes a “halo” and uses only a black sharpie. Say the CA will pull the black ink into the gaps and fill them. Seems like one could just use black CA, but I’ve only found that in medium thickness, which prob will still work. Then others use black epoxy. Appreciate your thoughts on all - removing, marking, gluing and filling. Thx. Jon |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Sun Apr 07, 2024 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inlay glue and techniques |
I go a different way. I mix up a small amount of hot hide glue, but add enough urea to make it liquid at room temperature. Old Brown Glue will serve the purpose (it’s just hot hide glue with a lot of urea in it). Then I make some end grain sawdust from a cutoff of whatever wood is the inlay background. It is best to use end grain sawdust, because it is finer. Then I make a little paste with the glue and sawdust. This is both the glue for the inlay and the fill material for the gaps. I put some paste in the inlay pocket, then put the inlay in the pocket, and let the paste squish out a bit. Then I glob on the extra paste all over the top of the inlay, and mound it up a bit. This last part is extremely important, because the paste will lose its water overnight and shrink back. Let it sit overnight, then sand level the next day with a hardwood sanding block. On dark woods, the inlay fill is pretty much invisible. Other glues don’t work as well for me as hot hide glue, so beware of substitutions. Good luck! |
|
| Author: | rbuddy [ Sun Apr 07, 2024 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inlay glue and techniques |
My preference is to fit the inlay as closely as possible. With a good fit you often don't need any filler and on lighter colored wood, clear epoxy (or med CA) lets the color of surrounding wood show and helps hide the voids. I've used StewMac black epoxy and like it in ebony and rosewood. For lighter woods I like the StewMac burnt umber powder dyes. I've found by mixing more or less powder in with the epoxy I can color match many lighter woods. Use a good quality epoxy and I'd stay away from the 5 min hardware store variety. I have also used CA. In that case I glue in the shell with a small drop of med glue, pack fine sawdust around the inlay and flood with thin CA. I look for good glue to wood and inlay contact. I always experiment with fillers on wood lighter colored than ebony before the final run. edit - Note, glue will turn lighter wood dust much darker so tests are in order. |
|
| Author: | Kbore [ Sun Apr 07, 2024 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Inlay glue and techniques |
doncaparker wrote: I go a different way. I mix up a small amount of hot hide glue, but add enough urea to make it liquid at room temperature. Old Brown Glue will serve the purpose (it’s just hot hide glue with a lot of urea in it). Then I make some end grain sawdust from a cutoff of whatever wood is the inlay background. It is best to use end grain sawdust, because it is finer. Then I make a little paste with the glue and sawdust. This is both the glue for the inlay and the fill material for the gaps. I put some paste in the inlay pocket, then put the inlay in the pocket, and let the paste squish out a bit. Then I glob on the extra paste all over the top of the inlay, and mound it up a bit. This last part is extremely important, because the paste will lose its water overnight and shrink back. Let it sit overnight, then sand level the next day with a hardwood sanding block. On dark woods, the inlay fill is pretty much invisible. Other glues don’t work as well for me as hot hide glue, so beware of substitutions. Good luck! Don, that is an interesting approach I have not tried hyde glue but sounds very appropriate. I'll test it out at next opportunity. I have used epoxy/ wood dust, CA/ wood dust. I like the epoxy mixture better (using as Don outline above) as it sands easier, is less brittle than CA and presents less pin holes than CA. Sounds like the hyde glue has all the benefits. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ @Duct Tape, this is how I do my torch/ vine inlays from Depaul: (Practice this ENTIRE process with a simple object(s), like a coin or washer or even a piece of wood, or two.) Not wise to haul off and do a complex pattern without at least some process experience! You will likely adapt this to your own research and methods of work. 1. I number each pearl piece with sharpie before removing from the backer. 2. I make 2 or more photocopies of the numbered pattern. Re-mark the piece on the paper number as needed for best visibility. Sometimes the #mark won't fit on the pearl, I write it on the paper with an arrow pointing to the piece. 3. I pencil a cross-hair locating target or two on one copy, cut out the paper pattern very close to final size, making one paper pattern piece, then use that to position the pattern on headstock. When you have it where you want it, extend the cross-hair locator marks onto to headstock. 4. Condition the packing tape on a tee-shirt to reduce tack. Apply the packing tape to the pearl and soak off per Depaul. 5. Remove each piece from the tape, one at a time (tweezers work for me), and locate it on the headstock. Do for all pieces until the pattern is complete and in position. A combination of lifting, prying and rotating works for me. Pieces are NOT glued yet. 6. One piece at a time, place a small dot or two of Elmers white glue on each piece in the widest portion(s) of the piece. You dont want squeeze out, and you dont want to glue the weakest (narrowest) portion. 7. After dry (overnight) you will scribe the entire pattern onto the headstock. I throw the kitchen sink at the scribing part- exacto, needle in pin vise, scribe, scalpel, they are all equally problematic. When you scribe, hold down the narrow parts with the eraser end of a pencil to support it and prevent it snapping off with the scribe pressure. 8. After its completely scribed (I usually take at least an hour, and go over it multiple times, especially in the tight curves), trace it again with a lead pencil. 9. Remove the pearl, with hot water (or acetone/ naptha if CA) one piece at a time- a soldering iron tip helps soften problem areas. As each piece is removed, place it back onto the packing tape, in approximate location of the pattern for "storage". 10. Inlet with a very small router bit, one piece at a time. I route to "exact" thickness, or err on the side of proud, as there will be some adhesive layer thickness when glued. Do not glue them in. I actually use a burr. Rubbing white pencil and/ or talc powder into your scribe line helps to make it more visible. 11. When checking for fit, try to place your piece in perfectly level with the plane of the overlay. Any tilt of the piece will give the appearance of it not fitting the inlet. Keep the pieces straight. When one piece fits, return it back to tape and start on the next piece, one at a time. Use a thin pencil to mark the areas that need extra material removal- route that line in half and test fit again. 12. When all the pieces fit- the whole pattern is in place in the inlet pockets, its time to glue. Pick you poison on adhesive and how many pieces to glue in. Clean each piece before you glue. You will "bed" each piece in, one at a time, but quickly. Don't use accelerator at this stage if you choose CA. 13. When entire pattern is glued in place, flood/ pack/ fill the pattern and its edges with adhesive of your choosing. You can pack the crevices with dust or mix it in the adhesive, or both. I use a small artist pallet knife to push into crevices leaving the adhesive PROUD of the surface. 14. Remove the well-cured excess with a bastard file, scraper and abrasive paper, that's my order. I final smooth the exposed pearl with 320. Use a hard block larger than the pattern so you don't thin the veneer while sanding flush. You can drop fill pin holes with CA, as there are usually pin holes. You want these filled before applying finish. This has worked for me. There are lots of ways to do it, you'll develop thae method that works best for you. The pic is the Large Weyman inlay from DePaul. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|