Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Tue Mar 19, 2024 12:59 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:53 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I could watch you do this all day. Thanks for preserving an old world art and letting us watch you do it!

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:31 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:17 am
Posts: 1383
Location: Canada
Great stuff Phillip! Reminds me of a wonderfull PBS (I think) show chronicling the old world making of a samurai sword. Love these kinds of demonstrations.

_________________
Dave
Milton, ON


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:04 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Thanks guys, I'm glad you're enjoying this.

Dennis, the purpose of the twisting is to manipulate the layers of steel to produce the desired pattern, it doesn't affect the performance. This is a variation of the basic twist pattern, where you twist a single bar. Another twist pattern I like is turkish twist. Here's an example of that pattern:

Image


And here's a knife with the same pattern as the chisel will be:

Image

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:10 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Here's what I got done this morning. First, I ground the bar clean. When twisting a square bar, you make deep grooves, almost like screw threads. The bottoms of those grooves can get forged into the surface, and if you don't grind them out before final forging, you might be in trouble.

Image


Then I started drawing out the tang:

Image


Then the blade part is drawn out width-wise. I was shooting for a finished width of 3/4", so I want it a bit wider to allow for grinding:

Image

Image


Now the whole thing is thermal cycled a few times. This relieves stress and refines the grain.

Image

Once that's cooled down, I'll start grinding.

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:19 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The knife with the twist pattern the same as the chisel will be is un-freakin-believable! I absolutely love it! I see one of those in my future. Gorgeous Phillip. Just gorgeous.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:45 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: Missouri
First name: Patrick
Last Name: Hanna
State: Missouri
Country: USA
Phillip, I see you are making a tanged chisel this time. I've been wondering up to this point whether it would have a tang or a socket. If you have also made socket chisels, would you post a few pictures? I'd be very curious to know whether you would forge or lathe a socket. Many thanks for this excellent demonstration.
Patrick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:31 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 1170
First name: Rodger
Last Name: Knox
City: Baltimore
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21234
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Wow, this is very cool. Makes me wish I had a chance to win! laughing6-hehe

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:14 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:29 am
Posts: 502
First name: joseph
Last Name: sallis
City: newcastle-upon-tyne
State: tyne and wear
Zip/Postal Code: ne46xe
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
just wanted to chip in and say that I'm really enjoying this thread too!
What a prize!

_________________
We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:39 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Netherlands
Every time I see stuff like this, I get the urge to build a forge.

Then I price everything out and realize I don't even have enough hours in the day to do half the things I've already got on my wish list, and figure I should just enjoy watching other talented individuals work.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:14 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2561
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
If I don't win one how much to just buy one?

_________________
Old growth, shmold growth!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:56 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:42 pm
Posts: 554
First name: Brian
State: NY/Granada
Country: USA/Spain
Focus: Build
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
If I don't win one how much to just buy one?



+1, but when I don't win, how much to buy one?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:34 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
cphanna wrote:
Phillip, I see you are making a tanged chisel this time. I've been wondering up to this point whether it would have a tang or a socket. If you have also made socket chisels, would you post a few pictures? I'd be very curious to know whether you would forge or lathe a socket. Many thanks for this excellent demonstration.
Patrick



I haven't made any socket chisels yet. If I did, I'd probably try to forge it close to shape, and use a guide for grinding and filing the rest of the way.

theguitarwhisperer wrote:
If I don't win one how much to just buy one?


About $175. :)

Thanks everybody else for your comments, and I'm glad to facilitate a walk down memory lane, Filippo. :)

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:40 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Ok, time to get working on the handle (actually, I made the handle a couple weeks ago, it's just easier for me talk in the present tense ;) ).

I'm making this handle out of scraps of knife handle wood I had laying around. Arizona desert ironwood and african blackwood.

First step is to clamp the pieces in the four jaw chuck on my lathe:

Image

and drill all the way through one piece, and most of the way through the other:

Image


I'm using a piece of bronze between the two pieces of wood to add contrast and to keep them lined up right:

Image

Image

Image

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:43 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Now the pieces are all glued together (using CA):

Image

then ground clean:

Image


Then I hog off the material where the ferrule will be using the bandsaw:

Image


Then chuck it up in the lathe again and turn it round:

Image

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:46 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Now for the ferrule. I'm making it out of bronze also, and the only turning stock I had was 1.5" diameter. But, it was partly turned down to size from a previous project. [:Y:]

Image

Image


Now the ferrule is cut off, and glued to the handle blank:

Image

Image


And the handle starts to get shaped:

Image

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:52 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Initially, I shaped it with a thumb stop:

Image

Image

Image

but didn't like the way it felt, so I ground it off. The spacer in the handle is a different kind of bronze than the ferrule, and is very hard to machine, so all the shaping after the above pics, were done free hand on the belt grinder.

After rough shaping, it was sanded with slack belts through 600 grit, then buffed:

Image

Image

Image


Tomorrow, I'm hoping I'll be able to heat treat the blade.

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:00 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 298
First name: Jay
Last Name: Swann
City: Austin
State: TX
Zip/Postal Code: 78739
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
It's so amazing to me to watch people with real talent. Were I to win the chisel, it would become one of my prized possessions. What a work of art!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:52 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:40 am
Posts: 764
First name: wes
Last Name: Lewis
City: Garland
State: Tx.
Zip/Postal Code: 75044
Focus: Build
that is so cool!!!!! looks great!! [:Y:]

_________________
MK5acoustics.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:58 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
So nice!

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:36 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:31 pm
Posts: 1877
First name: Darryl
Last Name: Young
State: AR
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I can't believe I just now seen this thread. Thanks so much for posting this step by step tutorial. I've enjoyed it very much!

_________________
Formerly known as Adaboy.......


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 559
First name: Marcus
Last Name: Bailie
City: Kirkland
State: WA
Focus: Build
There needs to be a knife-making subform. I could look at pictures like this all day long.

...or I could just go find a knife makers forum. Bah, like I need another forum to go to.

_________________
-Marcus
http://www.bailieguitars.com
Instagram | YouTube


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:24 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4524
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
That is beautifull work Phillip . This is by far the best thread of the challenge LOL

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:37 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Well, I didn't get around to heat treating until Friday, because I wanted to get a bunch of knife blades ready to do at the same time, to conserve energy. So here's the chisel:

Image

and here are the knives I did:

Image


The gray coating you see is anti scale compound. It protects the surface from the effects of oxygen at high temps.


Here it is after quenching. The steels I used for the chisel are shallow hardening, so require a fast quenchant. Traditionally, this was done in the urine of a red headed virgin, but it's hard to find virgins nowadays, so I use a quench oil designed for fast steels. It's almost as fast as water, but without the risk of cracking, which would be very disgusting this far along...

Image


After tempering, which is done twice at 350 degrees for a couple hours, it's back to the grinder to clean up the grinds, trying to make everything symmetrical and straight:

Image


I finished up on the grinder with 240 grit, then went to 400 grit by hand:

Image

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:46 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 458
Location: Northeast Indiana
First name: Phillip
Last Name: Patton
City: Yoder
State: IN
Zip/Postal Code: 46798
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Then into the etching tank. I etch in ferric chloride. I like a fairly weak solution, because I think it looks nicer to do many slow etches, with light sanding in between, than to do a couple deep etches.

Image

I etch for 10 minutes, and here's how it looks:

Image


Then sand with 600 grit, etch for 10 more minutes, then buff with a fairly hard wheel and green chrome compound:

Image

Image


Then etch for another 10 minutes, then it goes into the neutralizing bath, which is just water and baking soda.

_________________
Regards,
Phillip Patton

http://www.pattonblades.com

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price has faded.

https://hoosierbladesmith.wordpress.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Chisel build thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:48 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4524
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I think you might make more money by building custom guitar chisels for luthiers ! Amazing work Phillip . [:Y:]

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com