Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:42 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:27 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:55 am
Posts: 83
Location: Sweden
First name: Roger
Last Name: Häggström
City: Örnsköldsvik
Zip/Postal Code: 89136
Country: Sweden
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I can't prove anything about the tone of a guitar, but I could clearly hear the difference with and without the PlateMate. Very metallic tone with it and not so without it. I don't think a PlateMate adds a significant weight to the system, I don't have one to weigh (for obvious reasons!), so I don't actually know how heavy it is.

The weight of the bridge/pins/plate is of course very important, but I think it's wrong to explain any change in tone in a guitar with weights alone, it's too easy. I believe different hardness and materials also have an important role when it comes to tone.

_________________
New will change the old,
turn to ashes or gold

http://www.gammelgura.se


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:51 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12971
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
RogerHaggstrom wrote:
I can't prove anything about the tone of a guitar, but I could clearly hear the difference with and without the PlateMate. Very metallic tone with it and not so without it. I don't think a PlateMate adds a significant weight to the system, I don't have one to weigh (for obvious reasons!), so I don't actually know how heavy it is.

The weight of the bridge/pins/plate is of course very important, but I think it's wrong to explain any change in tone in a guitar with weights alone, it's too easy. I believe different hardness and materials also have an important role when it comes to tone.


No problem believe what you wish. A change in mass over the bridge area of an acoustic guitar (weight...) has long been accepted by many Luthiers as a tone altering, possibly event. It's why we explain the difference that some people perceive with different bridge pins and materials.

The bridge plate and any cap or saver is not part of the speaking length of the string and as such it's impact on tone is likely in my view non-existent.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:38 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:55 am
Posts: 83
Location: Sweden
First name: Roger
Last Name: Häggström
City: Örnsköldsvik
Zip/Postal Code: 89136
Country: Sweden
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
What I believe is based on many, many practical experiments. One of them changed the tone dramatically just turning the same spruce wood in the end grain direction (spruce is about 3 times harder in that direction) compared with the usual radial/tangential direction. No change in weight, big change in tone.

_________________
New will change the old,
turn to ashes or gold

http://www.gammelgura.se


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:57 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:46 am
Posts: 2931
Location: United States
If any has a chance they should really read Rogers article in American Lutherie.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:21 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm
Posts: 388
First name: Pierre
Last Name: Castonguay
City: Québec, Qc
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Jim Watts wrote:
If any has a chance they should really read Rogers article in American Lutherie.

Jim, seems like you really liked it. Which one was that? Roger wrote quite a few.


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:45 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:46 am
Posts: 2931
Location: United States
It was the winter issue, #144. I'm just plugging it (pun intended :) ) as it's totally relevant to this discussion on plugging bridge patches. It's obvious he put a lot of work into it and he presents some data on various plugs. I don't necessarily see myself following this path at this point in time as I try not to do too many repairs. But I do think if someone was interested in plugging a bridge patch, it'd be some food for thought.

_________________
Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:16 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm
Posts: 388
First name: Pierre
Last Name: Castonguay
City: Québec, Qc
Country: Canada
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Jim Watts wrote:
It was the winter issue, #144. I'm just plugging it (pun intended :) ) as it's totally relevant to this discussion on plugging bridge patches. It's obvious he put a lot of work into it and he presents some data on various plugs. I don't necessarily see myself following this path at this point in time as I try not to do too many repairs. But I do think if someone was interested in plugging a bridge patch, it'd be some food for thought.

Thanks!


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:00 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:17 pm
Posts: 37
First name: Matt
Last Name: D
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Hesh wrote:
Caps are a great answer especially for the crowd that does not want metal in their guitar and thinks that there may be a tonal impact (there isn't but they think that anyway....). A cap can be banged out in three minutes .055" thick, good ole Michigan rock maple and no need to purchase anything from anyone. In either case consideration for possible pick-up interference in installation should be considered as well.

But the best solution is a slotless pin conversion cap or saver and refitting the instrument for slotless pins. We have restored 1870's Martins with slotless pins and there was zero bridge plate wear.

Bridge plate wear on modern steel strings is actually a fairly newer thing and resulting from some genius at a f*ctory determining that if they used mass produced, cheap plastic bridge pins with slots in them they would not have to pay semi-skilled labor to slot the bridge, top and plate for slotless pins as it was in the past.

But what no one cared about or knew is the slot in the pin and to a lesser degree the taper at 5 degrees permits the string balls to eat away at the edges of the pin holes and that's what results over time in bridge plate wear. Unslot the pins and properly fit the instrument for this and there is no bridge plate wear. 3 degree pins do better too, unslotted in keeping the string balls from the edges of the string holes.

My business partner David Colling presented a talk on this subject at one of the Northwoods seminars and he called it the "Deevolution of the Bridge Pin." Many of you who have come to classes at our place may remember the posters on the wall describing this.


Fascinating. Never heard of this before. Am definitely going to look into this and might start taking this up as standard practice. Great bit of information!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com