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Ovation acoustic repair
https://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=54619		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
You're welcome Bob. I keep having to post over and over and over and over and over...:) again that Ov*tions have very little if any "learning value" in repairing them because unless you can't get any business at all and have to work on them you will never work on one again. And I personally know of at least half a dozen shops that won't touch them because of "scope creep...." Scope creep is the scope of the project, the level of required involvement creeps or expands like peeling back an onion, a very, very, rotten, smelly, slimy, germs..... (new term for the times... :) ) onion. :)

We won't touch them but we value Ov*tions as a term we use to insult each other in our shop :) I once called Dave my business partner a ******* balladeer! :) He in turn called me an ******* Adamas!

When you think of it too Ov*tion was a subsidiary or the Kamen Helicopter company where their core competency was vibration isolation.... not vibration application and transmission.....
Author:  torontobob [ Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Scope Creep !!! After a career in large software implementations (ERP stuff) - I KNOW scope-creep!
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
torontobob wrote:
Scope Creep !!! After a career in large software implementations (ERP stuff) - I KNOW scope-creep!


Yep exactly, I'm an old EAI software guy myself now retired and doing Lutherie as my retirement gig. Having a ball too.
Author:  torontobob [ Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Ok, on with the Ova*ion repair.

There were two places where the top was 'cranked' up when Earlier photos here didn't show that too well, but there were two 3/8" 'strips" pulled up behind the bridge hold-down bolts. Whatever happened, it looks like the underlying braces were involved. It wasn't that bad - and with judicial use of an iron and some glue (TiteBond I) the top is now looking good. (Well, a lot better!)

Next will be the bridge re-attachment. And I'm not too worried. There is lots of wood-to-wood surface to adhere to, and I bough a couple of proper clamps. While in the past I might have used hide-glue (like I did repairing the bridge of my Harmony Stella) I'll go with the TiteBond as advised here. (I learned that hide glue is tricky as the temperature is a big issue. Too low and you're dead. Work too slow and you're dead. Don't have proper clamps, experience, etc., and you're dead. I was just lucky with the Harmony stella split bridge.)

So, I'll get to the bridge soon.

But now looking at the crack/fracture on the head.

Attachment:
NeckCrackSmall.png


The crack goes all the way through. Though it all feels pretty 'solid', I can flex it a bit to open/close the crack. So the question is this: Inject glue into the crack and clamp it closed? Or break it right off and deal with it in two pieces? I'm guessing to NOT break it off.

If I keep it in one piece (comments welcome on that) and 'inject glue', how to do that? TiteBond is fairly viscous so - heat it up and inject with a syringe and then clamp?

Thanks in advance!

Bob

P.S. - All this work for an Ova*ion??? Remember - I'm just a sucker for anything broken and love to learn.
Author:  Skarsaune [ Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Titebond can be diluted with water so it flows better.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Don't break it because that will make alignment of the parts more difficult.

Instead of injection, I like to use pallet knives or feeler gauges to rub glue deep into a crack. Once you get a bunch in there, squeeze the joint several times to pump the glue into the recesses.

That crack should glue well because it is long grain instead of cross grain. Just make sure that you can get it completely closed, and that there are no splinters out of alignment that might prevent closure.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
A syringe also works well to squirt slightly diluted Titebond into the deep part of the break. Also - a wound string holds a lot of glue and will work into tight spots.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Dry runs with your clamps and cauls for the headstock are super important. Make sure that however you are going to clamp this it closes completely and in proper alignment.

We have a headstock jig and do a lot of these but it can be done without the jig.

Don't break it all of the way. Flex it open and use compressed air to blow the Titebond "original" into the crack. Diluting is something I do at times and blow that into the crack but I always follow up with full strength and let the thinner stuff 50:50 mix act as a carrier for the thicker Titebond right out of the bottle. I do top cracks the same way.

There is no value beyond someone's experience with Lutherie to use HHG on a headstock repair unless you are very good at it and very fast with proper jigs and such. So good on you for deciding to go with titebond I would too especially if I did not have a proper headstock jig to preposition everything for rapid clamping.

Manipulating fibers and getting a great fit is key, short of that the repair may not look great and may not hold so get the clamping right and take your time on the prep it's important on these. A properly prepped headstock repair makes the gluing and clamping undramatic because we fixed all the issues on the dry runs.

Lastly back to HHG for academic purposes only. One criteria for deciding when to use it is will the joint need to be serviced and possibly released in the future. Of course the answer on a headstock is no. Again this is one criteria, there are others for HHG use.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Hey good luck. If it doesn't work out you can always use it for an oar!
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
fingerstyle1978 wrote:
Hey good luck. If it doesn't work out you can always use it for an oar!


laughing6-hehe Or long handled bed pan. :D
Author:  torontobob [ Wed Feb 02, 2022 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Hi.

Ok - finally got the neve up to blue the bridge and headstock. Bridge first - and 24 hr wait under clamps. Headstock next and another 24 hr wait under clamps. Both look good. In both cases I injected semi-diluted TiteBond into the joints with a hypodermic needle. And when injecting and clamping I saw a nice bead come out. So confidence is high. With clamps removed all looks good. The headstock seems nicely mated together with tight seams. We'll see ... (Don't laugh too hard at the photos.)

Now - testing. After a bridge re-attachment, is there a process for bringing the instrument up to full tension? All at once? Or gradually?
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
I assume you'll handle cleaning up any excess glue, and then touching up the finish if needed. At that point, if all is well - tune it up. It's sink or swim time.
Author:  torontobob [ Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Ya, the finish. I'll go at that 1st as there are some cracks that both look bad and risk snagging and tearing up/out when in use. So I would like to "fill" them for safety and appearance. By and large though, 90%+ of the top still has a really nice finish given it's an early 70's relic.

So - recommendations on the product to use? Brush? Spray?

(Oh, and you can see in the photo of the bridge that I bought $50 worth of clamps to fix a $25 guitar.) (Don't tell Mom! :D )
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Good going Bob.

Wanted to share that we use compressed air at times to blow either HHG or Titebond original, whatever we are using for the specific guitar into the far reaches of a crack. Works great and with HHG you better be moving fast too.

Rick Turner once posted here that he injects hot water and then comes the HHG also moving very fast.
Author:  torontobob [ Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Hi. Happy spring!

Ok, several coats of MinWax polyurethane and 400 - 1500 grit sanding. And I was done. Not that it looked perfect, but good enough for me. And all I was really trying to do was fool myself - keep working to get that perfect finish and I can put-off the scary bit - restringing it.
So I put the tuners back on and strung it up.

No disaster - the bridge stayed on and it sounds pretty-good! And it looks ok - not that a pro would admit to this job.

Thanks for all your help people!

Bob
Author:  torontobob [ Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Hi. So, four months in and final report:

The finish may be embarrassing to many. The frets are worn. And this make may be a PITA to professionals. But, you know what? I love this guitar now.

For all I know this may be the same instrument I borrowed and played in a high-school concert forty years ago. If it is, it's had a hard journey. (Who hasn't?) If it isn't, it's the same as the one I remember - decent sound and a really fast neck.

So- bottom-line: they may be Hell (or pointless) to work on/repair, and I get it. But for this wanna-be - it's a joy.

Best wishes to all!

Bob
Author:  Mark Mc [ Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ovation acoustic repair
Nice result. Thanks for checking back in with a progress report. There is great satisfaction in pulling together a serviceable result for something that was otherwise junk. It is a completely different game from professional repair of fancy instruments - but it keeps people happy and gives you a good feeling too.
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