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1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
https://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10137&t=54763		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DougDA [ Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
Hi I had a customer bring me an alvarez yairi that is due for a neck reset. I'm curious if anyone here knows the type of glue they used on these? I just watched a youtube video of a factory tour and they mention traditional hide glue?? I've read they use everything from epoxy to wood glues to who knows what...

thanks in advance
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
Welcome to the forum.

I'm not sure that a Yari is a dovetail joint and not dowelled and not intended to be serviced/reset. I know for a fact that some of the lower end Alverez guitars are doweled joints.

If it's not a dovetail it's a nightmare to reset and likely not even wise to attempt. There is a well know story of a top shelf music store attempting to reset one by slipping the neck block called a California reset by Michigan people and a Michigan reset by California people, no one wants to get an of it on us... and be known for sloppy work.... The results ended up in court.....

So be sure it's a dovetail first and it if isn't I would not touch it and we service over 1,100 guitars annually with the full spectrum of services including resets.

Resets under the best of circumstances are very difficult and a can of worms because to do it correctly you also need to be capable of decent fret work and making a new nut, saddle, set-up, etc. Resetting without addressing the fret plane, fret dress or refret is problematic so we always include fret work and a new nut with our resets.

You likely will need to be highly skilled at finish repair too it's pretty standard fare for finishes to need touch-up after a reset and that is often what takes the most time.

Not trying to be negative my friend you just asked a question about a very difficult one if it's not a dovetail neck joint.
Author:  joshnothing [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
Doug I don’t know what kind of neck joint those are nor what glue I’m afraid.. but if you haven’t already I think it’d be worth asking over at Frank Ford’s frets.net forum too. I’ve seen plenty of discussion on resetting Japanese guitars happen there over the years so there may be someone who has been down this road.
Author:  DougDA [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
Thanks Hesh and Josh!

I've done traditional resets many many times on martins, gibson, etc. and just recently on an older Yamaha (which was surprisingly drama free). Normally though, folks aren't willing to sink that kind of money into a import guitars. This guy however is the original owner, loves this thing, etc. and has also budgeted for a full regret afterwards.

Great idea about frets.com. thanks again.
Author:  DougDA [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
oh, And I'm 99% sure this is a traditional dovetail. The shop i work out of here has a countertop display piece from Alvarez (yairi) of a sample neck and the corresponding neck block. To show customers i guess? Its just like a martin dovetail.
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
DougDA wrote:
Thanks Hesh and Josh!

I've done traditional resets many many times on martins, gibson, etc. and just recently on an older Yamaha (which was surprisingly drama free). Normally though, folks aren't willing to sink that kind of money into a import guitars. This guy however is the original owner, loves this thing, etc. and has also budgeted for a full regret afterwards.

Great idea about frets.com. thanks again.


Hey Doug, nice to meet you and you have a lot of experience so I'll stop with the overly cautious BS that is standard fare for me when a beginner wants to rip a neck of an Ov*tion and I'm responding. My apologies too, you didn't need me to induce my concerns with your experience level.

Let us know what you find out please? We have one of these in our neck of the woods that is famous because a lawsuit resulted over the neck joint :)
Author:  joshnothing [ Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
Hesh wrote:
Let us know what you find out please? We have one of these in our neck of the woods that is famous because a lawsuit resulted over the neck joint :)


You got me curious Hesh, what’s the story there?
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
joshnothing wrote:
Hesh wrote:
Let us know what you find out please? We have one of these in our neck of the woods that is famous because a lawsuit resulted over the neck joint :)


You got me curious Hesh, what’s the story there?


Josh Buddy without naming names a Yari was attempted to have it's neck reset and it was a huge can of worms and the Luthier, a very good one by the way could not get the neck joint to release. This was not us to make this clear, we would not have taken it in we are liability adverse from my GE training.

One thing led to another and it was decided by the Luthier to do a California reset which is what we call the process here in Michigan. In California they call it a Michigan reset. No one wants to get any on us..... :)

So the process is to heat to soften the glue and then slip the neck block and fret board extension without fully releasing them while..... at the same time doing all manner of unnatural acts to bend the body so that when the glue cures again the neck angle is improved. This is not unlike the distortion that may occur to a guitar under tension when left in a hot car for a very long time.

What resulted was a nightmare, body hump, bad neck angle, basically the guitar was ruined.

The gigging musician did threaten to sue, we know him and avoid him now.... and the shop being a very decent shop settled for an amount of money. I know the amount but I'm not saying it here or anywhere.

Anyway we think that slipping the neck block is a very poor practice and we also think that you do NOT take chances or see it as a learning opportunity with the valuable personal property of others. We have a "bailment" the legal term when a guitar is entrusted to us and a duty to use good care and treat her well.

So in the end after this attempt to reset a Yari neck with a California/Michigan/poor practice slip of the neck block everyone lost. The musician was out a one of a kind vintage Yari that he adored, the shop wasted their time, effort and money BUT did step up very quickly and do the right thing.

Wanted to add something here to help inform others why I'm negative about ripping this off or that off and figuring it out along the way......

When I went to work at GE long ago in the "assimilation session" (that's what they called it with new hires and acquired enterprises) we were asked what is "Job one" at GE.

One guy said "making money." The instructor said no. Then a woman said "getting big deals" and the instructor said no. After that it was silent.

Job one at GE was shielding the enterprise from unwanted liability. We were the biggest company in human history and every day some fool somewhere made up a reason to sue us. We attracted every slip and fall artist on the planet because we have a market cap of $36B which at that time was beyond anything any company had ever done. It's mouse nuts these days....

So when I climb my two flights of stairs these days to Ann Arbor Guitars I am 1) looking to enjoy my work and 2) always keen to shield our company from unwanted liability 3) always uber respectful of the valuable personal property of others to such an extent that I treat it as well or better than my own coveted gear and then, then and only then 4) we are ready to make some money.

And with this said we have made some money :)

If nothing else if I can help others recognize that a single slip of the chisel not only can injure you seriously as the Padma used to say here it can result in you paying out thousands for some ******* instrument that you never should have taken in.

The single greatest mistake that the vast majority of Luthiers may do at one time or for a while until they are no longer working in this trade is trying to be all things to all folks.

It's very OK to say "nope, we are going to decline but you know has done these before and you can contact?" Refer out and spend your time on profitable things that are not highly risky.

My dentist is a professor of Dentistry at the University of Michigan. He has more training than any other Dentist in the state. If I need a crown he refers me out. If I need a toot canal I am referred out again. Extraction? Yep referred out. Professionals specialize we can too.......

Back to the Yari these days it hangs on the wall in this guys house and pisses him off every time he sees it. I've suggested taking it down or even throwing it in a bon fire but he seems to like to wallow.

My old girlfriend used to say "some will, some won't, so what, next..." :)
Author:  Stone [ Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1979 Alvarez Yairi neck reset question
Apologies if this is a luthier only forum. I joined specifically to find a luthier to reset the neck on my Yairi (and this thread showed up without a search).

I have a 1978 Yairi DY-85. Like the OP's customer, I am the original owner and I love my guitar.

Is there a way I can get a recommendation for an experienced luthier within a few hours drive of Pensacola, FL? I don't have a lot of confidence in my internet search.

Thanks!
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