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G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
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Author:  Colin North [ Sat May 28, 2022 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
Got one of these in for a new nut as the owner said tuning goes out when using the vibrato (fitted a Tusq one, XL with Teflon)
This has a 'Dual-Fulcrum' tremolo unit, it's made in Indonesia.
Trying to adjust the vibrato/tremolo. Found instructions for the original - http://glguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/GLmanual.pdf but this Indonesian one doesn't have the micro-tilt neck.
Having spent some time (sic) following the original instructions and it's not really so straight forward.
Change one thing/another goes - adjust vibrato, action changes, and so does intonation.
I'm getting closer, but any help out there? Anyone familiar with this unit?
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat May 28, 2022 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
That is the conundrum of a balanced fulcrum system. It's the waterbed theory - push down over here, it goes up over there. There is a lot of back and forth, Colin - and it's tedious. Small adjustments at a time, careful tuning and re-tuning, will eventually yield good results.

I assume the truss rod was already in the ballpark and the action was good before you loosened the strings to replace the nut? Are there 3 springs or 2 in the back? Did the client want a floating vibrato, or setup for a hard stop at standard string pitch and down only on the vibrato bar? Also - locking tuning machines or standard?

Did I send you copies of SIC? The first issue has my article on setting up Fender whammies, which would apply to this system.
Author:  Colin North [ Sat May 28, 2022 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
Chris Pile wrote:
That is the conundrum of a balanced fulcrum system. It's the waterbed theory - push down over here, it goes up over there. There is a lot of back and forth, Colin - and it's tedious. Small adjustments at a time, careful tuning and re-tuning, will eventually yield good results.

I assume the truss rod was already in the ballpark and the action was good before you loosened the strings to replace the nut? Are there 3 springs or 2 in the back? Did the client want a floating vibrato, or setup for a hard stop at pitch and down only on the vibrato bar?

Appreciate the reply Chris.
He blocked the trem and wasn't using the bar at all because he thought the stings were slicking in the nut.
He tried lubing it too with no luck, hence the nut change request.
Truss rod was not set correctly, far too much relief. Action was way high even with relief set.
I dressed/crowned/polished the frets, fitted the new nut and cut the nut slots to depth.
Then established correct relief and have since set the action/intonation with the vibrato in approximately correct position with springs roughly adjusted.
I'm getting closer, just looking for any tips, taking a well earned break and will sleep on it.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat May 28, 2022 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
PM me your email addy, and I'll email you Issue #1 of SIC if you like. My article starts on the front page...
Author:  Hesh [ Sun May 29, 2022 3:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
These are very easy to set up you simply adjust the claw for a level trem for the exact strings and predominant tuning... that the player uses.

It's also important to know and advise clients that trems suck, all of them.... and tuning stability is always an issue with the vast majority of dang trems. We tell clients at triage that this is the case and set their expectations properly.

As long as you are not hearing the "ping" noise that is heard when a binding nut slot releases finally it's not the nut it's simply that trems suck, period.

Colin my friend I wish that there is more I can say but there really isn't beyond you can chase things such as polishing the posts and contact points, deburring the pivot points if burrs are present but these are usually temp fixes in the thing will continue to eat it'self in time and with use and be messed up again at some point.

To give you some idea how bad trems are no matter who's trem Strats are likely the most prevalent electric guitar in the world and the Fender trem also sucks. We set most Strats up with the trem set flat so you can do dives but not swells because the tuning stability on this trem is so messed up. We advise the client that we recommend this and encourage them to let us set it flat. Fortunately on a Fender trem you can set it flat, not all trems can do this. When set flat AND when the nut slots are cut low as they always should be we can eliminate 90% or so of tuning instability on Strats.

Anyway for us the fix is as much a conversation with the client on expectations and guitar hardware that was never ready for prime time. I don't include reworking a trem as part of our set-ups, it's too much of a time and effort suck so we offer it and bill it separately if we are going to be taking apart and rebuilding the trem polishing and deburring things.
Author:  Conor_Searl [ Mon May 30, 2022 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
Players expectations really are a big part of dealing with the realities of a trem system. I love whammy bars, although I never use them for any kind of guitar pyrotechnics. I've got a couple strats, and a jazzmaster. The JM stays in tune better, but the strats are fine. I tune in between every song, and sometimes more than that, it comes with the territory and doesn't strike me as a problem, just the reality. But I've dealt with a lot of clients that seem to think having to tune more than at the beginning of the night is a huge tuning problem.

With a two point system this is what I do. It's much like any other guitar, albeit with the added step of making sure the spring/string balance is correct.

- I'll still start with setting the relief where I want it.

- Then I'll ball park my radius/action at the saddles about halfway in their travel, and use the two posts to set an approximate string height at the 17th fret.

- This should give me enough information to work on the string/spring balance. If I can't set it flat on the top of the guitar due to the design of the guitar I generally like to see the bridge plate sitting parallel with the top, if the player really wants to be able to pull up, I'll set the balance so the back end sits about an 1/8" off the top of the guitar. This is a tedious step, tune the guitar adjust the claw in the back, retune, doing this until things settle how you want.

- One the balance is how I like, I set the action at the 17th fret. This may mean lowering or raising the two points, or simply tweaking the saddles. Either way your relief, and string balance won't be affected by this adjustment.

- Then I set the height at the nut. Well cut and rounded slots are very important. I use nut slots a few thou bigger than the gauge of strings I'll be using.

- Then set the intonation like any other fender style guitar.

Taking a break is a great idea. If you're anything like me, spending too much time focusing on the details causes me to lose perspective, and I develop a myopic microscopic attention to every fluctuation. And nothing is ever good enough at that point.
Author:  StevenWheeler [ Tue May 31, 2022 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
On a floating trem, I find it easier to wedge the trem block to the body, tune to pitch and then adjust the springs. YMMV.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
Quote:
On a floating trem, I find it easier to wedge the trem block to the body, tune to pitch and then adjust the springs. YMMV.


Of course easier, but not correct and probably not workable.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
Couple of things:

Had an ESP yesterday that my mission in life with it was to nix an annoying noise that the dang trem made when it was released. We thought it was hitting the body too hard, it's set flat which we recommend for occasional trem users, it greatly increases tuning stability.

I was going to block the trem block and when I got in there the trem block was hitting the cavity wall at the very same time the back edge of the trem slammed down on the topside body of the guitar.

So I superglued a 1/2 X 1/2 X .030" mahogany shim on the face of the cavity that the trem block now hits just before the back edge of the trem would have hit the body. Almost entirely eliminated the noise, 95% of it. Also suggests that the back edge was hitting a nano second prior to the trem block hitting the cavity wall. Mahogany was not a great choice being resonate and such but it was handy....

But the real reason for the post is I tuned, used the trem and checked tuning 5 times in a row. Not once did it return to neutral perfectly and was always 4 - 8 cents of change on some strings.

This is not unusual for trems and even when we rebuild them with new parts or it's a new guitar I often when I do this test have similar results.

I'm not a trem used and they are an annoyance to me. My generation were not the EVH or Slash set (they are incredible) so not big trem users I set my trem equipped axes with the trem set flat so I can dive but not swell. My trem arms live in the cases too not on the guitars because I don't use them. My tuning stability on Strats and such is excellent as a result and this is what we recommend for our clients who are not uber dependent on a full motion trem in their playing styles.

They are also a big arse hunk of steel on the face of a guitar and I hate em..... I know many will disagree but my kind of guitar is mahogany, 50's wiring, no trem and very traditional with no coil taps or any BS like that. Les Paul Juniors and me are best friends. :)
Author:  joshnothing [ Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: G & L Tribute S500 vibrato/tremlo set up
Had one last month where the guy brought in two strats - the one he wanted set up, and another of his that he wanted me to use as a ‘model’ for the setup, to see if I could replicate the feel of. It was a vintage-style six screw bridge, fully floating and could be absolutely hammered in either direction and would return to pitch every time. Checked it with a strobe - the worst it ever performed was coming back 2 cents out. It was mongrel partscaster. It also had the softest, smoothest trem feel despite being setup with 11s. It was as stable as any locking trem I’ve ever encountered.

Using some of the sage advice penned by Chris in SIC I got the other one (an expensive small-builder “strat”)as close as I could, and the guy was happy. Had to mix and match three different types of spring and shim the neck/deck the saddles to try and nail the soft feel the guy liked. In hindsight I shoulda charged him more than my standard setup fee :D

But even after all that it never reached quite the stability of the partscaster. The customer didn’t hold it against me - “that partscaster is just a freak”, he said. The freaks are out there!
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