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Just finishing up a guitar for a client and I dropped the neck. The result was a small dent on the back side. After a few hours of cursing myself I am ready to do something about the dent. Here's a picture.

The neck wood is Spanish Cedar and the finish brushed Petit spar varnish. I have used the GluBoost CA for repairs and filling voids on finish on the top, bindings, purflings etc. and it worked well on flat surfaces. I just wondered if there was anyone out there who has found an easy/fast/invisible method for fixing this particular type of imperfection.

Thanks,
Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

I've done the same and had some luck leveling the finish with 400 grit to minimize it. Then rebuffing, but you have to have some extra finish on there for it to work and I haven't removed all of it this way. You can also try to steam it out with a hot solder gun and wet cloth, that has helped me also, but not all the way.

Steam it out as much as possible.

If the steam gets it almost completely out, a simple drop fill using your finishing material is likely the best bet.

If the dent is not almost gone after steaming, rub wax around the dent and fill with burn in stick, clear or amber. Scuff sand and spot refinish if necessary, though with varnish you may get a witness line. Works best with lacquer really but if your varnish is well cured it will fill that too. With practice, you can leave close to an invisible repair just with the burn in and knife motion.

CA? IMO no. I've never had good luck trying to fill dents with it. Maybe in polyester.

I hadn't heard it was possible to steam a dent out of a finished surface. That works? Does it depend on the type of finish?

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Steaming through a finish can work but the degree to which it works is obviously dependent on the thickness and type of finish. But it is definitely worth the effort to give it a try because there is nothing to loose if you are careful with the source of heat. I have an old household iron and I use just the tip for steaming dents.

Thanks, everyone. I'm going to bump this up to see if others will weigh in.

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

Bump

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

I think the hot iron think works because there is always some moisture content in the wood. Depending on the depth of the dent will there be enough? Poke a hole through the finish with a thin sewing needle and put a drop of water on it for a while to introduce more moisture? This is a tough one.

If you can manage to introduce some water into the dent and steam it, leave it for a while as it might sink back a bit. A couple of applications of water and steam may be needed to get it close.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Ya me thinks that the steaming with the paddle tip on a Weller soldering gun may help or work. Again though I've never done this though finish so I would test on scrap with the same level and type of finish on it first.

I'm wondering, and I did not read the entire thread, what the finish is and how difficult it would be to repair invisibly if it was removed to get some moisture into the wood as Alex suggested.

I'm going to stick my figurative neck out and offer unsolicited personal opinions. I think OP needs to make the neck look like it never was damaged, so that an unblemished instrument is handed to the owner. I think the difficulty of an appropriate repair is not a consideration of what needs to be delivered to the owner. Sounds like this is a new instrument the OP's getting ready to deliver, and if so, then I think any 'easy/fast' repairs don't belong in the consideration of what to do.







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Peter Havriluk

Well, what is that saying? something on the order of "the true measure of a good craftsman is the ability to fix their mistakes" ?



Grant

Peter,

You are correct. The "fast/easy" part was just wishful thinking on my part. "Invisible" is the operative word here. I have begun to attempt steaming and it seems to be helping somewhat. I suspect I will still end up with a small visible dent that I will have to fill somehow before I can ship the guitar to its new owner.

Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

How about simply drop filling...?

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Max, is there a possibility to remove the finish 'regionally', soak/steam the dent, and refinish that region of the neck? But I have no idea how the finishing materials will tolerate attempts at blending.

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Peter Havriluk

I have steamed out similar dents on necks but never with finish. I would imagine the heat will bubble the finish. I would test on some scrap first. If it doesn't work I would scrape the finish off around the dent, steam and then work on the refinish.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Steam is a gas folks. No need to poke any holes or scrape away the finish. It will go through the most microscopic of openings. I've steamed out dents in finished wood more times than I can count. Apply damp cloth and tip of iron and the steam will get through. Repeat 5 or 10 times if you have to. Drop fill whatever is left.

Scraping away finish will almost never be necessary. Besides, spot repairs down to the wood are difficult to impossible to refinish invisibly.

Maybe it does not have to be perfect. Get it as good as you can, contact the buyer by phone and be honest about what happened and offer a small discount. Maybe $100-$150 or so.

If the new owner is a real player and not an accumulator of expensive toys that can be shown off and talked about in forums they should jump on the chance to save some money and still have a great playing and sounding guitar.

If that is not acceptable you'll probably have to refinish the neck.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Sticking my neck out here, but after you see how you get on steaming through the finish and drop filling with CA before (I suspect) more coats of varnish over the whole neck, you may find stripping the whole neck, steaming dent out and re-finishing to have been quicker and surer.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Again, from my own opinions, I agree with Mr. North. I've found over time, and across many activities, that backing up from a problem to where I can produce a work product that is not hiding a blemish is usually the most satisfactory path, and often enough the shortest, at the end of the day. Experience teaches me how far that backup needs to be, it varies with experience and attention.

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Peter Havriluk

While in most cases I agree with the sentiment that it's better to simply redo something correctly, I think you'd be surprised at how invisibly something like this can be repaired. When done properly it will not be seen, even if pointed out, at least if the finish is lacquer or shellac. A little steaming, some drop fill, sand and polish, and it's gone. With varnish it becomes trickier, but there's no harm in trying.

CA drop fill is never a good idea, and I feel rather strongly about this. As I said before, maybe in polyester. I don't know because I've not used it.

Once again, I'm offering up my own opinion that on any new instrument being delivered to a customer, the customer is entitled to an undamaged piece of work. I don't regard re-doing work so as to eliminate damage as a 'sentiment' but a duty, especially on a bespoke instrument. I think that commissioned work carries with it implications of care and execution in excess of whether damage can still be seen; it still exists. From what I've read, some manufacturers will sell their cosmetically damaged instruments at a reduced price identified as such ('B-stock' is one term I've read). I've never encountered a discussion as to whether some manufacturers will do a repair and sell the instrument among new production that had no damage.

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Peter Havriluk

Peter, I have great respect for folks opinions. However, at what point in the build process is it no longer appropriate to fix a mistake and proceed? We are dealing with wood which is a material that is almost infinitely repairable, if one is a competent woodworker. And those repairs can be as good or better than the original wood. "Competent woodworker" may be the sticking point. Some folks building instruments may not have that background, and I don't perceive that as an insurmountable obstacle. That was probably the whole point of the original post...somebody having a problem and looking for suggestions as to the best solution. I see that as one of the main benefits of forums like this. I don't see that anybody here was suggesting that he do a "hack job" and call it OK.

So, again, maybe I misinterpreted your comments. Are you suggesting that a proper repair is unacceptable? That, no matter what is done, this remains "damaged goods"? If so, I would have to respectfully disagree with that opinion. If not, carry on

Grant

Grant, you very gently and clearly illustrated the scenario flow I perceived as a problem. Thank you. I agree that there is a big cloud of ambiguity involved in our discussion. Let's put me into the role of a purchaser of a bespoke guitar: The builder delivers the instrument with a repaired neck, i.e., damaged and remedied with finishing materials of some sort. I'd think I was badly treated, whether or not the insult was visible at the end of the day. There's no way the builder would have chosen a neck blank getting such repair for a new instrument, and I, the customer, would feel badly treated if that was done. I'd need to be confronted by a very persuasive builder indeed to accept such parts in a new instrument. Such a neck belongs on a spare-parts special, priced accordingly. That's my level of expectation for a new commissioned guitar. We're not talking craftsmanship, we're discussing damaged goods. Now, for me as builder of my own instrument, I am free to do as I like and use such components as I choose on my own instrument. They're for me. And if the builder had chosen to use a (oops!) dented neck for his commission, and made the dent go away before finishing the neck, then I think he was behaving as a proper craftsman and doing a good job. The neck needed a dent steamed out before the finish was applied. On a good day he got a good deal on a fine neck with a dent, because of the dent, and knew that he could remedy the dent an come out ahead financially by exercising his skills. Before the finish was applied, the neck was flawless, thanks to craftsmanship and patience. The dent wasn't disguised, it was removed. No covered-up damage. Nothing to talk about. Same thing if the builder, after a whole dictionary full of magic words passed his lips, took his shiny new finished neck with its shiny new dent back to the workbench and rid himself of the dent and refinished what needed refinishing, that's also nothing to talk about. I think each of us wants nothing to talk about.

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Peter Havriluk