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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:10 pm 
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Koa
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This all started when I got back a guitar that I built 22 years ago that had the binding coming off .
I used ABS binding with the LMI glue in the the Blue tube


Image

So I tried a little experiment with different plastics and different glues to see if I can come up with anything and here’s what I found:

I routed a binding/ purfling channel in the edge of a Honduran mahogany board.

Then I glued in different types of plastic material with different types of glue and let it sit for five days and then used a chisel to pry them all out of there slots to see what I could observe...

Here are the different combinations I used:

ABS-LMI blue tube, Duco,LMI fca, Roo glue and thin cyanoacrolate

PVC - LMI blue tube and LMI fca

Bolteron- LMI fca and Roo glue

Ivoroid- Duco and LMI blue tube

Image


Image

So what I found was that all the glues seem to take some wood with them when you pry them off with a chisel...

As Far is how tight they were on there the clear winner was the Ivoroid with the Duco

The other thing I noticed about the Duco was that purfling to binding bond was better than any of the other glues .
Before I did this experiment I thought the plastic to plastic bond would be better than the plastic to Wood bond but that didn’t seem to be the case.

I showed in my last post that I had a piece of a guitar that was 23 years old that had ivoroid binding and I pulled off and it took a lot of wood with it was really tight after all those years
Image



These users thanked the author Brad Goodman for the post (total 2): Terence Kennedy (Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:26 pm) • Hesh (Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:17 pm)
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:22 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Many thanks for this Brad, very useful and timely too.

Back in the day I was one of the first ever Windsurfer dealers in the world. I think that I purchased number seven as our first one to learn on and resell. Anyway back then windsurfer racing was much like sailboat racing in terms of the courses, etc. We had clients who wanted compasses installed but not screwed on to the boards. We could not get anything to stick reliably to ABS, nothing. It was bleach bottle.

Anyway we have some solutions these days and your guide agrees with our information.

Thanks for putting this together Brad my friend and I'm still enjoying my number 14 that you sold me the rosewood for, great guitar.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:35 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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been a duco fan for 20 years your result mirrored mine from about 18 years ago

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:11 pm 
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Koa
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Duco is fine on cellulose nitrate - it's just gelled acetone, after all, and a good solvent for the material. Not a good adhesive for ABS/PVC alloys like Bolteron, and it's common to see peeling Bolteron bindings from the era when Martin used Duco. We get adequate hold on plain ABS or PVC, but have been playing with Oatley Fusion low-VOC PVC cement for PVC, CPVC, and ABS, and like what we are seeing thus far...$1/ounce versus about $7/ounce for other glues like Weld-On and Duco.

Any of these adhesives -with the possible exception of the honey badger of glues, CA - are as much dependent on surface prep as the nature of the sticky stuff itself. Any plastic binding gets clean and toothed before use.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:45 pm 
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"honey badger of glues" laughing6-hehe

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:24 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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scroll down for the video:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/hon ... te-3426051



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post: bcombs510 (Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:04 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:56 pm 
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I have several different types of binding that I have bought through the years. I have no idea what some of it is made from. Is there an easy way to test a small scrap of each and tell if it is PVC, ABS, Bolteron, etc., etc.?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:19 pm 
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Koa
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James Burkett wrote:
I have several different types of binding that I have bought through the years. I have no idea what some of it is made from. Is there an easy way to test a small scrap of each and tell if it is PVC, ABS, Bolteron, etc., etc.?


I do not know of any method to tell those types apart.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:08 am 
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I like to use ivoroid - is there more than one material that it is made of? The fancy stuff is original cellulose nitrate and costs a bundle to ship because of the hazmat fee, but I have bought other that was inexpensive and had no extra fee. How about CA with the good stuff? I have had (at least temporary) success with CA on it.

Ed


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:14 am 
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I guess my best option, if I don't know the material for sure, is to scrape it, tooth it, and use the honey badger.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:14 am 
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Quote:
I like to use ivoroid - is there more than one material that it is made of?


There is some ivory-grained polyester, but I have never seen it used for binding. Celluloid can be identified by the strong camphor smell when scraped or sanded.

Quote:
How about CA with the good stuff? I have had (at least temporary) success with CA on it.


Been doing that for 30+ years. It's my favorite glue for celluloid, since there is no softening of the binding that can occur with Duco. I do use Duco for wood rosettes and purfling.......it does not discolor spruce like CA can.

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