Official Luthiers Forum!

Sorry Brock,

I didn't mean to imply anyone had done anything on purpose. I guess really really disappointed would have been a better choice of words but the truth is I had thought I was going to be able to get to something really great since this was the only area I had to pay to gain access. After paying I thought that wasn't worth it.

That of course was my first impression about " The Classified section"

I really don't remember if that was how it was presented ( must pay to get into the classifieds) or if it was something that I did in my own mind

When swapalooza came around that is another story. That is when I realized joining really is worth paying the money. I guess just a clearer definition of what is behind the door before putting out the money would have made for much different feelings about it was worth.

Now maybe if I had thought that membership and donating to the OLF will give me an added benefit of access vs I need to pay $12 just to get in the classifieds I really would have had a different outlook.

Donating to this forum for all it is and does IS worth it and for less than the price of Pizza

How about free to view, fee to sell, $20 buys you 12 listings a year, no more than 3 a month and that is the annual limit for any member.

Not hard to police as it would soon become pretty obvious if anyone was abusing the system.

Just a though.

Cheer

Kim

Thanks, Kim.
There are a few different workable ideas that could address the concern about sponsors vs interlopers:
1) Make it clear to sponsors that they are paying for the banner ads, not some supposed exclusive access to the membership (as on other forums). Are the sponsors filling up the classifieds with their advertising now?
2) Make it a matter of policy that non-sponsor commercial vendors are not allowed to advertise in the classifieds; put # of ad limits in place as Kim suggests, depend on the members to report offenders (the same way offensive posts/ads are reported now...)
3) Look around at other websites/forums and see how they handle this issue..
etc etc..

However, the decision has been made, and several hundred members have paid for classified access, so there's not much way to turn back the clock on this one.

Making a universal rule that no "For Sale' or 'Auction' ads are allowed except in the Classified Area would be a step in the right direction.

Cheers
John

There is a new year coming in a little over 5 months.

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Waddy

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This "fear" of the abuser reminds me of gun control issues. In order to cut down on gun crime, poiticians pass laws that make guns illegal. Problem is, u disarm the honest folks while the dishonest folks will still arm themselves and commit crimes with them none the less (and at much less risk to themselves since honest folks are now disarmed). The real answer has always been to enforce the existing rules. Put a moderator in that forum, an enforcer, and open it to viewers for free. Don't "punish" the masses for the sake of a few bad apples. I know this works, I've seen it elsewheres.

Btw, please ignore that poitical analogy... Was the best I could come up with.

Some forums I'm aware of handle the issue by only allowing forum members with a certain minimum number of posts (say 50) to open a thread in the classified section. That way nobody can quickly sign up only to sell loads of stuff in the classified section, but has to be an established forum member.
Of course there's still room for abuse like spamming 50 posts in existing threads, and then posting a classified ad...but I don't think any serious businessman would gamble with his reputation by indulging in such childish behavior.

Just wanted to throw it out as another option...I'm a happy classified subscriber and have bought and sold some stuff there.

cheers, Christian

Non-paid members should be able to browse, but not be able to see who the seller is. If they see something they want, then they need to pay up to join and then have full access. Any seller who includes info regarding his identity should have his post modified. You need a moderator dedicated to this single forum. It will work.

While we are on the topic of the classified section, I was wondering (as i can't access it as of yet) are there ANY UK/European sellers in the classifieds? As much as I would like to buy stuff from N. America, the postage & customs is too hefty.

I didnt read the entire post but just wanted to add on the idea of looking for free but not being able to post. If a seller post something that a non paying member wants what would stop that member from just sending a pm to the seller. It is cheap to sign up for I year and it helps the site. I say leave it the way it is.

I am a classified subscriber and like the fact that it is separate from the forum and don't mind the fee. I've yet to purchase or sell anything in classified...but came close a few times and like the ability to buy and sell in that section for the nominal fee. I don't have time to LIVE on the forum or the classified to get the deals that arise in time. Too busy. God help us if you ever open the regular forum up to selling and buying for the benefit of those posts to get to all the forum participants.
The Forum itself is a great resource and I like the simplicity and basic rules of the site and the well thought out posting and reference options.
Sometimes....the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. People DO tend to complicate what is simple.
OLF is Super!
Kent Bailey

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EXCELLENCE IN SCULPTURE, CARVING, LUTHIER, ARCHITECTURAL MILLWORK AND DESIGN

http://www.kabart.com

I am on holiday with the family but thought I would add a point of view that should be considered in this topic (although it has been highlighted already).

I have been a 'sponsor' of this forum for a long time, I remember when our membership was still in the low three digits. To my small business my monthly fee is not insignificant (but also not unfair!). My activity on the forum is also not entirely to market my products, I feel (and hope) that I am a contibuting member where ever my experiences allow me to be relevent. So I feel that my financial support of the forum, although indeed a two way street (I win, the forums win) is also part of the foundation that allows the forum to exist. Because of this I am sensitive to vehicles that can undermine the committment that us longterm (and newer) sponsors add to this place. At the end of the day my monthly fee is a business decision while my participation is entirely voluntary. So I watch these discussions with interest. I am in no way against the classified section, but too worry about how it used and by who. But I also agree more traffic will make the sub-forum much more useful and would support some means to allow that to happen for the "one offs' that people have. If you are producing a product to support your luthiery habit (much as I started out) then maybe a sponsorship is a better way to support this place and move your goods.

Shane

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Canada

hey, just my 2 cents here,
but i think it's fine the way it is.
i don't go to the classifieds, because i don't need to buy stuff from other than the vendors.
if i did, i would pay the bucks, for the classifieds. it's not much.
very good points brock.