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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:36 pm 
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I have a delta 14" with Riser , Drift is one thing and can be allowed for . However , When he was cross cutting the block and got a Unsquare cut , THAT is blade guides and a Poorly setup saw in my feeble opinion.

Use a NEW SHARP blade and set your Guides as close to the work as possible , Take your time and let the saw do its job properly and the drift will be minimized . No special setups needed . I have a Wood saw guide I built , I offset it slightly to account for some drift and cut accordingly .

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:02 pm 
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Every blade will has its own amount of drift and will need to be compensated for on a individual blade basis.
The reasons for drift were explained by Grumpy quite well.
L.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:29 pm 
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RusRob wrote:
In the first part of that video I swear he is using my 40 year old craftsman... That is how my saw works even with a new blade. No fancy adjustments like that on my POS... laughing6-hehe

Yeah, my 14" Craftsman is only one year old. I was dorking with it last weekend and noticed the blade is centered on the top wheel, and right up next to the edge of the bottom wheel.
Looks like I need to spend some quality time with my saw and a large hammer.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:42 pm 
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Link Van Cleave wrote:
Every blade will has its own amount of drift and will need to be compensated for on a individual blade basis.
The reasons for drift were explained by Grumpy quite well.
L.



mmmmm, isn't that the purpose of the ease of adjustability with the table rotating? I thought that all the adjustable points on any piece of equipment was so the operator could tune it when needed. If drift were inherent to the machine itself, then said drift could be designed out of it!

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:58 am 
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Mmmmmm, Didn't I say that drift was a result of the blade. And each blade has it own amount of drift so that has to do with the blades not the machine. Having a table that rotates is a over engineered solution. He is using the table to move the fence to an angle. Much easier to move the fence.
L.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:56 am 
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When I re-saw I use a home-made fence made of plywood with the end facing perpendicular to the blade, The end is rounded off so that as the wood passes between the blade and the fence there is only a small surface area of the fence touching the wood. (Sorry for no photo, it would save a lot of words).
I scribe a line down the length of the wood and follow that line as I cut. So if there is drift I can adjust the angle of the wood going through the fence.
Each time I re-saw I put on a new blade.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:27 am 
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With good blades, the main cause of drift is saws with crowned wheels. On these, the drift varies with the position of the blade on the upper wheel, because the angle of the blade changes.

Most of the large Italian saws do not use crowned wheels and won't show any drift until the blade starts to dull.

-jd



These users thanked the author windsurfer for the post: Michael Lloyd (Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:46 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:44 am 
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If the guide bearings(the ones behind the blade) are set correctly, the blade will remain where it is, regardless of crowned wheels or not.

Link, you are using some really nice saws, which is why I don't think you 'get' what I was saying about power. A lot(most?) of us use our dinky little 14" saws with either a 3/4hp or 1hp motor and that is an under-powered saw that would benefit greatly from some added oomph! In the video being discussed here we notice that the saw bogs-down once or twice and I can assure you from experience that the blade just drifted or cut a concave when that happened. Wood isn't uniform in hardness and a lack of power makes itself clearly known; with plenty of power on tap, it just chugs-along and ignores most everything.

I also agree that setting your fence(all bandsaw fences are adjustable for drift) is easier and makes more sense than turning the entire table. Using a laser to set the fence for drift would be cool, though, and anyone could rig that up with a cheap laser.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Grumpy, I see your point. Especially when folks use risers and push their 14" ers to do things that are at their limits. A new motor would be needed along with the rest of it. I think the lack of HP is exacerbated by people using too wide a blade as well.


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With good blades, the main cause of drift is saws with crowned wheels. On these, the drift varies with the position of the blade on the upper wheel, because the angle of the blade changes.


I think we are not talking about the same thing. If we are I disagree. Even if the blade is coming off of the tire at a angle it is straight between the guides. The crown is slight anyway. Blade drift and poor cuts are too different things. Drift is caused by blades, you see this in perfectly straight (by straight in this case I mean, no cupping, wandering, roughness, etc.) cuts on a perfectly tuned saw, you will usually get some kind of drift. You can change blades and get different amounts of drift. This is not the saw. If you mean cupped cuts, wandering blades, etc. this is caused by out of plane wheels, unbalanced wheels etc. and the other things that are necessary to have right to get good results that I enumerated in a prior post. You can get good results by sawing parallel to the blade with a well tuned saw but for optimal cuts with the least effort and most efficiency it is best to accommodate for drift.
In another note I have set up saws with crowned wheels,flat wheels, and bottom flat and top crowned. I went back to crowned for both and have gotten consistently great results. Very important to have the wheels co-planer so each wheel doesn't fight for the blade causing it to pulsate forwards and back. The flat drive wheel and crowned top wheel has a lot to be said for it but in the real world (at least in my world) it didn't work as well as both wheels crowned. That said I do crown the bottom wheel less.
Todd S. has shown a picture many times of what you can expect from a well tuned saw. I have cut a lot of 8" to 10" 1/16" veneer many times over 60" long that is glue ready off of the saw. When people see the surface of the cuts they don't believe I haven't sanded it. Not bragging just a lot of people settle for much less and don't realize what the bandsaw can do as a tool. For average sawing of sets and things you don't need this level of perfection but especially with the smaller saws getting everything right is a must for good results. Plus if I had some BRW you can be sure I would set things up perfectly so I would have as little waste as possible. It just makes things so much easier.
L.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:57 pm 
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I gave this book to both my son and son-in-law.

"New Complete Guide to the Band Saw" by Mark Duginske

It's well worth the price at $16.50.

LV has it http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=57214&cat=1,46096,46119&ap=1

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:36 pm 
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I need a new saw. Mine is an old Grizzly 18 inch with coplaner problems, crown problems, guide problems. It laughs at me, and I make him obey like an old dog. Any recommendations for a new one are welcomed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Ken, You are in the right part of the country to find some old iron. 24" Tannawitz, 20" Yates American, 30 Oliver. Really these are small industrial saws that don't have much more of a footprint than your Grizzly. You would have to deal with 3phase which can be to your advantage because 3 phase machines go for less. You can use a inverter up to 3hp, or a rotary phase convertor but don't use a static phase converter.
Another idea would be a used Rockwell 20" welded steel saw. I see these not too infrequently on Craigslist for reasonable prices.
While I prefer old iron these saws can be tuned up to preform really, really well. My friend David Marks has one of these and his works like a charm. I think there are quite a few around as they may have been used in schools. Also a Davis and Wells 20" is a really nice saw. While the Yates is about as big as you could get for a 20" the Davis and Wells is about as small as you can get. Nice big table though. These were made in L.A. so maybe not many out your way.
L.

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These users thanked the author Link Van Cleave for the post: Ken McKay (Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:07 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:04 pm 
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grumpy wrote:
I also agree that setting your fence(all bandsaw fences are adjustable for drift) is easier and makes more sense than turning the entire table. Using a laser to set the fence for drift would be cool, though, and anyone could rig that up with a cheap laser.


Grumpy I am quoting you, but this is for Link as well.

Please demonstrate to me how it is easier to adjust the fence, unless that fence has this adjustment designed into it, that it is to loosen some nut on a trunnion and rotate the table with fence attached. I am a visual learner.....so you can help me understand how fence adjustment is easier by showing me.

I am not trying to be a butt, but.... laughing6-hehe I really have a hard time grasping you guys thinking on this, and very likely it is because I have never seen it demonstrated. Thanks in advance!

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:33 pm 
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On my fence, I just loosen one bolt and the fence moves freely; set the angle and tighten the one bolt. Simple as simple gets...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:25 pm 
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Turmite there are a lot of YouTube videos on how to compensate for drift. Have you done a search?

Link can you email me I have a craigslist link to ask you about.

Kenmckay@hotmail


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Well the first thing is where do you find a bandsaw with a rotating table. Do you retrofit this? Waste the table that comes with the saw. That is a major modification to the saw. $$ I would rather put my time and money into (As Grumpy would do) a bigger motor, better guides, new tires, etc. Why move a big heavy table to move a light small fence ?
What I and many of my peers do is to make a simple right angle fence out of plywood. The fence is clamped to the bandsaw table. (Years ago I designed one with magnetic bases(like the ones for dial indicators) that when I flipped the toggle the fence locked down. Turns out I still needed to use clamps to really secure it so I scrapped that one. I do notice that the idea has been done lately with table saw feather boards and such. I should have pursued my idea. )
I take my fence, put it up on the bandsaw and put it where I want it and clamp. Done.
To set drift:
You take a board that has one edge straight and draw a line on it parallel to the edge of the board. Cut along the line until you are staying on the line (this will require you to angle the board as you feed it.) and stop the saw in the middle of the cut. Use your bevel gauge to copy what angle you end up feeding the board. This is your drift angle. I simply put my fence away from the blade at what ever thickness of cut I want and use my bevel gauge to angle set the fence at the drift angle. Very easy. Once you have the drift angle copied on your bevel square that is the angle the fence will be at until you put on a new blade or as Grumpy described cut some curves and dull one side of the blade. I never use a single point fence, no need when you set the drift and it takes but a few seconds to set my fence and clamp it in place. Rock solid, no spinning tables :twisted:
If you want some pictures I can do it in a day or so.
L.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:27 pm 
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Hi Ken,

Naw....I know how to set for drift it is I just thought grumpy and Link had some way to do it differently, and honestly it sounds like grumpy does with the bolt loosen and tighten thing going on. I was interested in this saw that I linked here for one reason and that is the fact that it already had the rotating table built in and there is no need for clamps etc. I really am not trying to be difficult but I do want to know the easiest way to do things......whatever those things might be.

Here is the sad thing......I did not notice the size of this saw at all until I went back to watch the video again to watch the process of rotating the table. Then I saw it was a 14" and like Link, bigger is better!

Grumpy is your fence an aftermarket item?

Link, thank you for the offer of pics but as already mentioned I have done it with the clamps, and also the single point fence......that still never really worked for me! idunno

Mike

Ken McKay wrote:
Turmite there are a lot of YouTube videos on how to compensate for drift. Have you done a search?

Link can you email me I have a craigslist link to ask you about.

Kenmckay@hotmail


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:22 am 
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Grumpy is your fence an aftermarket item?


Nope. It's what came with the cheesy little 14" Delta that I still love to hate... lol


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:13 pm 
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This bandsaw is basically a Delta 14 inch clone, that has a rotating table and laser level, as well as cast iron upper and lower wheels (I read chinese, some japanese has enough chinese characters in them that I can sort of pick out the meaning).

If your blade is drifting, adjust the tracking until it cuts in a straight line. If it is drifting significantly like the video, your blade is either dull or not installed correctly.

The original fence on my bandsaw is not adjustable for drift, it is a one piece cast iron thing that screws onto the table and locks via a slot cast/machined into the table... really hate it. I swapped it out with the same fence used on the Grizzly G0514x2 and it really turned the saw from a lemon into a resaw machine. That fence has better adjustability for drift but with 4 bolts that goes into precision machined holes, I just can't wiggle the thing enough to tilt it to compensate for drift, so I adjust the tracking until it cuts right, and if it won't cut straight no matter what the blade is dull and should be replaced.

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