Official Luthiers Forum!

A clear understanding of the consequences of one's decisions would be such a handy thing to have when making life choices.

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I appreciate the compliments, David. I hope your daughter succeeds as a pianist, and/or at other things that might interest her over time. I think it is a good thing that she is excited enough about something to make sacrifices for it. Some kids don't develop that ability, so seeing a kid want to do it for anything (sports, marching band, drama, whatever) is, to me, a good thing.

The danger for her, or anyone else, is that I think we have a tendency to define ourselves primarily by what we do to make the money we need to live. I guess part of what I am advocating is that we should try to not do that to ourselves, because it can have some negative effects.

A few posters above seem to feel that I would have everyone give up on their creative outlets and take soul-killing factory jobs. No, I just think we should broaden the palette of how we make the money we need to live. If you assume that your main passion in life is naturally the thing you should do for a living, well, it might not be the kind of thing that makes enough money for you to live on, no matter how good you are at it. So maybe the answer is to do something else to make money and let your passion stay your passion.

Regarding being a lawyer: just as with any job, there are people who are very happy doing it, people who are miserable, and all points in between. I think lawyers can be the worst about letting their jobs define them. Combine that with the fact that some ways of making money as a lawyer are really way more soul-killing than others, and you can see the potential for profound unhappiness among some in the profession. All I can say is that I am fortunate to have a job that strikes a good balance for me. I hope you can move toward something like that, rlrhett.

And I wish Hesh's good fortune on everyone who changes careers. That's a great thing, to be able to move into something that makes you happy. The point for me is that you are making enough money at it to satisfy your needs. If that were not true, then you would do something else for money, but music would remain an important part of your life. And we should all be good with that, because life doesn't promise that your main passion in life pays a living wage, no matter how good you are at it.

At the moment I refuse to give up the total freedom of hobby building/repair We also have a very talented daughter, sings, plays guitar, honor roll, plays soccer for her high school. The bottom line with the creative side is having fun

Interesting Thread..

How to be happy in your life Tough, usually takes a good part of your life to figure out maybe you never get it.. I like to think I have figured out what I need to do in my life to be happy.. not there yet but getting close LOL.. OK I'm happy just not at my dream spot yet.. 16 months to retirement LOL...

I think you can try to be anything you want in life - try - maybe you make it maybe you don't. The key to being happy is how you deal with either.. Learning to deal with failure is a very important and often ignored skill.. Also defining success in a very narrow way like only related to a job is dangerous...

You see two general classes of people: those how work to pay for their fun and those who try and make work their fun... Not sure which is better, I've tried both over the years....

One thing I've learned over the years is just because your job involves doing something you like does not mean you will like your job, sadly many things effect how much you like a job, office politics, your co-workers many things out of your control. I'm no longer fond of my job but work with a good group so it is still fun..

Lutherie is a hobby and pretty all consuming one I admit but a hobby.. Maybe when I retire it will turn into a small income source. I'm sure it will be small, I'd be very happy to break even

Even in my happy place building a guitar there is failure we all have had it happen I'm sure; you slip, you make a mistake and weeks of work could be ruined. So how do you deal with it, do you throw the guitar across the room or reflect on how to fix it or at least learn from it.. Same goes for many things in life and as I said it is a skill that is often overlooked.. I know it was for me for a lot if years..

Happy making a bit of money for my upcoming retirement and building guitars when I am not...

Kerry

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My Website http://klw-strings.com
My Luthier's Blog...http://klwstrings.blogspot.com

I'm pretty sure I could round up the best friends I've made in life and we would have a good time working a garbage truck together.

I'm also certain I could fill my dream shop with superbly skilled prick luthiers who would drive me to quit in short order.

There is a very truism that helps define things for me: it's called work for a reason. Meaning, nobody would do it for free because the work sucks, but many would do it for money.

Now, I feel extremely lucky that the work I wanted to do also paid well. Yes, I wanted to be a rock star when I was 18. I clearly remember a drummer who was 28, no education, and not making it in music. I saw that could be me in 10 years and got my butt through school.

And these days, if you talk to professors, you can't merely have a degree. You need a salable skills. If you want a great discussion of the French Revolution, go to Peet's coffee and ask a barista because they have a bachelor's degree in French Literature ... and can't find work elsewhere.

I am a nurse. It pays very well here in the SF Bay area. I love my work. I would not do it for free. It's too physically demanding and requires maintenance of skills in areas of academia, fine motor, interpersonal, critical thinking, pharmacology, observation and assessment, and a willingness to clean up the foulest of human waste. Not many people that have all the advanced skills would stoop to cleaning up poop and barf. But if you do, you get paid a lot!

Yup. It's called work for a reason. Nursing is in high demand because there are too many people who follow their dreams and end up serving coffee at Peet's due to a skill set that nobody wants to pay for.

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If thee meddle with dragon kin, thou will become crunchy and good with ketchup.

Thanks for the invite Dave!

Don, my poke at lawyers was completely in jest.
My dear old dad was a lawyer. In Philadelphia no less. I grew up listening to lawyer jokes and thinking "hey! My dad's not like that!" He worked for community legal services and briefly taught as a professor.
I'm sure he would describe those years as satisfying and the others, in a downtown high-rise, as "soul sucking." I actually enjoyed hearing about his cases and various legal arguments growing up. I learned a lot.

I think lawyers catch crap mostly because they are the messengers of something humans don't seem to like. Namely, what's true, right, and just, are rarely as clear and simple as we want them to be.
By training, lawyers must learn not to just stand in the assigned shoes of someone else, but come up with a reasonable justification for the perspective of that shoe owner. In general, they have to be more comfortable with multiple, complex and often paradoxical viewpoints. Most people get the luxury and indulgence of sticking with their own simple singular perspective and sling arrows at any messenger suggesting that's just a lazy way out of human difficulties.

That's the way it is!
Few people realize (until very late in life) the skills and dedication of critical care nurses.

My niece is a nurse at one of the top hospitals in the States and she works with babies with heart issues in intensive care. These kids often do not survive and of course one cannot help but get attached to them at times too. It's not uncommon for their chest cavities to be left open... so that nurses can reach in there and hold and massage the babies heart.

You could not pay me enough to do this.... BUT I am very glad that some people will step-up and make this contribution to our world.

Droid thanks for your very valued service!

Thanks for your thoughts about lawyers, David! When I brought up the spectrum of happiness in the profession, I was more focused on the things rlrhett brought up. Not all lawyers are as miserable being lawyers as he is, but some are, and there can be some valid reasons to feel that way. I could never do family law, for instance. That would suck my soul faster than a Dementor (yeah, I raised a daughter during the Harry Potter years).

I think you are spot on regarding why folks give lawyers grief. You normally only deal with a lawyer when something is wrong in your life, the lawyer seems to have a type of power you don't, you pay them money for something that is not tangible, etc. there are also lawyers who earn the bad reputation. I never get mad about lawyer jokes. I could rattle off a good half dozen right now.

Regarding nursing, or any of the other jobs that are truly hard work, I see a lot of valor in the willingness to do it, and I also see good judgment. Being good at a job that few people want to do is a good way to be in demand, and being in demand can yield many benefits, tangible and otherwise.

I'm immensely lucky. After 30-some years in advertising, most of them challenging, fun and lucrative, I now have the luxury of building guitars without being dependent on them to make a living. So I can focus on developing my skills and craft at my own pace and to my own standards.

As an added bonus, I'm part of a community that is remarkably open and generous.

Like I said, lucky.

In over 30 years of medical practice as an Orthopaedic Surgeon good nurses saved my ass more times than I can remember. Count me in as a huge fan.

I think health care careers like nursing, lab and radiology technology, etc are great choices for kids. Interesting and meaningful work, available jobs anywhere in the country, and for the most part decent pay and benefits.

I built as a hobby when in practice and it became kind of a second career after retirement. One of my kids got me into it after he built several Martin kits when he was in grad school in the 90's. Since Orthopaedics is very gadget and jig oriented, guitar making was a very natural transition and has served as a great substitute for the OR in retirement.

I kind of lean towards thinking that in today's world kids should learn a marketable skill early in life that is capable of paying the rent so there is a fall back plan if a career in more sketchy area like lutherie or music does not pan out or if they are unable to marry money. Even Charlie Hoffman realized early in life that he was not going to be able to support himself and a family building and repairing guitars and went to law school.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

A few semi related thoughts of mine.

The best teacher I've ever known left the profession several years ago. After leaving she realized one of the reasons she became a teacher was it was the only job she knew the name of. Something we do very poorly is preparing kids for careers. Not as in having good math skills, but letting them know what their options are. What kind of jobs there are, what their work looks like, and how you can get there. I had a lot of jobs before teaching, and each of them I stumbled into blindly on accident.

Basically, I like working and I like people. Every job I've had, I mostly enjoyed. I may not always be the most skilled, but I'm reliable, work hard, and have a good attitude. It's not all a big party. There's always things that frustrate you. I keep telling myself, "if it were fun and people wanted to do it, they'd charge you and call it a spa." But so many people I saw at work were miserable. They spent all day every day looking to the weekend or obsessing over their 401k and counting the days until they could retire, and it's so easy to get sucked into it too. I didn't stay in those fields because it seemed like a sad way to spend a third of my life.

I became a teacher because I decided I'd rather do something I enjoyed all day instead of working hard at some drudgery so that I could afford to do fun things on weekends and vacations. That worked out well for me for many years. I woke up every morning looking forward to going to work. I'll never have a ski house or spend a month in Europe, but I've mostly enjoyed my life. Unfortunately, they have worked very hard to remove anything fun about the job. It is now a constant barrage of stress and impossible demands. From listening to friends and reading the news, it seems most jobs these days see people as consumable resources. Those of you who have found a place where you are valued and appreciated are truly fortunate.

I have a friend who is a brilliant engineer. He's also a motorhead, but intentionally directed his career away from cars. I asked him why he wasn't working somewhere making things go fast. His dad always told him, "Never made your hobby your job, because then your hobby becomes work instead of fun." I always thought that was good advice, but it sounds like some of you have experience to the contrary.

Mike

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Mike Lindstrom

I have drawn my "salary" since i was 18 as a luthier in one facet or another. in the beginning it was really, really hard. now its just hard. Happiness? I am not "happy" with my work. i am satisfied. Happiness i feel is overrated. If your goal is to be a "happy" luthier, do not do it professionally because the challenge of making ends meet will wear you out. If you are totally insane about fit and finish, and voicing, and you would love nothing other than to parse words with hesh over the benefits of low action with no buzz, then you just might be crazy enough to try and make a go of it professionally.
There are many things you can do in this world to make a buck, for me i always boiled luthiery down to" Its better than digging ditches"

So many of these great quotes in this thread. After an exhausting day dealing with customers of his construction business, my dad used to say - "At least they can't eat ya!"

I work in software and I think this to myself pretty often at the end of the day when the sales folks and managers have driven you crazy with customer escalations and absurd requirements.



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