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I'd like to see it happen. I was waiting to see if some more feedback came in (plus I have been really busy and am leaving town at the end of the week). I guess this means my proposal is fairly agreeable. I think the next thing to do would be determine what our timeline is and when to start. I know some of us don't do as much building in the humid summer months so I don't know if that plays into it or not. My vote would be to have a longish build time but "require" regular check-ins (even if it is to say you haven't made any progress).

Let's get some discussion about how long we want to let it run, when to start and where to set the spending limit. Hopefully a consensus will form. When I get back from vacation, I can take a stab at drafting some "rules." Nothing too rigid just guidelines to keep it all together.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

That's kinda a fun twist on things. I think the "pick two" gives plenty of flexibility if you want to do your own thing but kinda reins things in so they don't run completely away.

Timing wise - the biggest challenge for me personally is that I build the box in the dry winter time and then finish in the warmer spring/summer. As you guys well know - the fall and first half of winter is nearly impossible because of all the holidays and events going on.

Just thought I'd bump this back to the top so it's not forgotten.

I agree with John on the timing. About Jan-May would be an ideal interval to give good humidity for the building, and warmer weather for finishing. But that's an awfully long time to wait, so I'd also be up for a summer challenge using alternative methods of humidity control. Maybe starting in June and ending sometime in October before the holiday excuse becomes valid

Bracing is the only time that low humidity is really critical, and that can be achieved with careful use of your kitchen oven if there's no other option. Rosette gluing, box closing, bridge gluing, fingerboard gluing, and leveling fret ends to the edge of the board are all ideally done in humidity control, but IME are ok as long as it's not super high. Plate joining, linings, bindings, headplate, neck carving, etc. are all fine anytime since they don't involve cross grain gluing. Technically gluing the fingerboard doesn't either, but a lot of people use ebony and its high expansion rate can cause trouble anyway.

sure but I'm not interested in putting time into something like a pallet wood challenge. It takes a lot of time and energy to build a guitar and while I do enjoy watching others build with scraps I have no desire to do so myself. As a part time builder I want to end up with something that I could get a decent price for if I decided to sell it.

Just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

How about a build with a wood that you have never used before challenge? This would apply to the top and back and sides only and encourage folks to use those sets that have been sitting on our shelves for a few years now. For me it would be Padauk and sinker cedar.

I went ahead and accepted the something old, something new, something local challenge as Bryan laid it out in a post above, at least for myself. I created plans in a drawing program for my first parlor size guitar last week and I'm taking the file to an architectural printer this week to get full size print outs made. I placed an order for materials with LMI yesterday and I plan to get a start on the building the week after next. I'm looking forward to building this one. Thanks, Bryan, for the inspiration for this project.

Just to be clear, I'm taking up Bryan's idea as my next build because I like his idea. I'm not trying to say what the challenge should be for anyone else if it goes ahead. If my guitar fits in, that's great, but if not that's cool too.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

How 'bout a pic of the plan? I drew mine up as well Scale length is fan fret 25 1/2" - 24 3/4". Box is similar to Martin 0 size, but 1/2" shorter at 18 1/2" long. Bout widths are 9 1/2", 7 7/8", 13 1/2", but effectively 13" lower bout because of the bevel.

This is a style I've been wanting to try out for a while. Normally I hate the way bevels look, cutting into a symmetrical shape and making the bridge look off center. Using some subtle asymmetry of the body shape together with the natural asymmetry of the fan fret bridge and cutaway, the bevel looks totally natural. But it's tricky balancing it just right so the non-beveled back doesn't look weird either.

I don't think I'll be getting hard and heavy into the woodworking for a while regardless of the state of the challenge, but I have technically jumped the gun a bit on the fingerboard since I used it for my fan fret demo at the St. Louis gathering last month And I may cut out, rough thickness and join the soundboard (old redwood siding from my house) in the next few days just out of curiosity what it will sound and feel like.

But there's still more design work to do before going much farther. I still haven't decided what back/sides/neck to use, or what sort of rosette and other inlay designs to do.

UPDATE:
I decided to draw up another one, 1" longer and 1" narrower, so 19 1/2" length and 12 1/2" lower bout width. I definitely want to build the first shape sometime too, but I was reading about parlor guitars and saw that elongated shape is part of their characteristic style. And the redwood is off quarter, and thus well suited to elongated shapes. Not sure how I feel about it yet... may need to be a little bit less rounded, more boxy.

I like those drawings a lot Dennis!

I too have been thinking about this project (even though we haven't agreed on a time frame yet). I was at the Borg the other day and happened to see a pile of culled lumber for 70% off. In that pile was a 6 foot long Pine 1X12 that was (almost) completely unusable. It was nearly split in half from shrinkage but it had a few things going for it. It was th2ecenter slice of the tree and the pith was off center giving it a nicely quartered section 6 inches wide. There was a section of that side which was just long enough to get a 12 inch lower bout parlor out of. The rest is trash but for $1.80 I figured I'd give it a go. At some point I'll resaw that section into two slices and see if it moves. The 3/4" of thickness will give two halves with plenty of wiggle room to correct problems while thicknessing. I also picked out a back set that I cut from a cherry board from my local urban log recyler (it grew right here in town so that is local enough). I cut 3 sets from that board but this one was only clear enough for a small bodied instrument. I'm pretty sure I can squeeze a parlor out of it. For the neck, I have a thick cherry board that was attached to the fence of a craigslist table saw. It was being used as a sacrificial fence for the dado stack. It may take some clever gluing of heel and peghead but I think it will work. I still have a few planks of jatoba floor boards I rescued from a moving sale years ago, one of these will likely become the fretboard and bridge. With $1.80 (potentially) for the top, back and sides being less than $15 per set (I'll have to look up what I paid for that board) and the neck, fretboard and bridge being completely free I have a good head start on whatever we decide is the spending limit.

As far as jumping the gun, I would think drawing up plans, sourcing materials and even rough dimensioning stock is all appropriate. I would also include mold and fixture making. That all seems like prep work to me.

We still need to come to agreement on time frame. I prefer holding off the start for a while and allowing a longer build time. Allowing this to be a back burner project with periodic updates will probably make this more doable for many. We have a number of parameters for this challenge already, I would hate to have timing be a factor that will keep people out.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Let me know when you are set to go and Ill create a new subforum for it.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

How about an inlay challenge? Or a cutaway challenge. Both of those could be on any instrument.
Emphasis on demonstrating your technique/tools so we can all learn from the different experiences.

I won't be participating - I have to find time to finish what I' have started, but I'll be following with interest, whatever form the challenge takes. These build challenges are always fun, informative, and inspiring! Have fun, guys and gals!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I like the idea of a long time frame, relaxing project. How about we just start now, and end sometime next spring? Anyone can join in at any time, and we compile the final list of participants at judging time. Almost more of a community building theme than a proper challenge.

But we can still have prizes to win I'll offer a set of custom wood tuner buttons. Either closed gear style screw-on like these, or press fit for open gear tuners. Winner's choice of shape and material (limited to what I have on hand or the winner can supply, and no softer woods like mahogany because buttons need to be durable).



Pretty safe bet that I'll be doing some inlays regardless And cutaway, too.

Can we get a final on the details?

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That's very generous of you Dennis!

I'm not opposed to the idea of starting now and ending next spring. A relaxed pace works for many of us. Anyone opposed to this?

I see dofthesea posted while I was typing. I'll try to write up a final proposal this weekend if I don't hear any compelling arguments against the long time window.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Here's what I came up with. It's not as interesting as the two designs you posted though. Btw, I really like the the first one and I hope you get around to building it some time. I have the same issues with bevels and their effect on the overall look of the guitar as you do. I've only seen a few that looked good to me. I think your treatment with the asymmetry would work very nicely.

The dimensions of my planned guitar are based on a 1920s Stromberg-Voisinet parlor guitar I have. 13" lower bout, 7 1/2" waist, 9" upper bout, 18" long, and a 24 3/4" scale. I drew this up using the program G Thang which I like using because you can try out lots of variations in dimensions and curvature very easily and quickly. I exported the file and converted to pdf which I can get printed out full size at an architectural printer. I'll laminate it onto poster board and then draw in the braces later.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Just for fun, here is a very preliminary sketch of my plan on the scrap board I got the other day. You'll notice two center lines drawn, I can't decide if I should do a 12.75" lower bout or the narrower 12" shape.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I had a hole in my schedule today and was reading through this thread. There don’t seem to be a whole lot of strong opinions about the timing so I’m just going to make an executive decision about what we are doing.
We are going to go with The Something Old, Something New, Something Local and You Pick Two Challenge. See the description below (pretty much what I posted earlier):

Something old - Some part (could be a small part or more if you like the challenge) of the instrument must be made from scrap or scrounged material. This could be anything from getting the bridge plate out of the firewood pile to discovering a back and side set buried in an old palate. It does not have to be a large portion of the instrument (even just a tiny bit of the inlay material would qualify) but feel free to go nuts if that is what you are into.

Something new - You must include something you have never tried before. This could be using hide glue for the first time, making a new shape or bracing pattern, new construction technique, new finishing product. . . the idea is to get you to try something you have been meaning to add to your repertoire. I recognize that many of you are well farther advanced than I and finding something new might be more challenging but there has to be something. . .

Something local - You have to include some material that is sourced locally. Timber that is indigenous to your area is an obvious choice but you are encouraged to have fun with it. Let's see what people come up with.

You pick two - Since Parlor was the favorite idea but not everybody's bag, we have a way out. There are 3 elements and you have to pick at least 2 of them for your project 1) parlor/terz/travel size, 2) work under a price cap and/or 3) finished instrument is donated to the cause of your choosing.

You could make a parlor and keep it all to yourself as long as you stay under the spending limit.
You could build whatever you want as long as you stay under the limit and donate the instrument
You could make the world's first $1.5 million travel guitar but you have to donate it. You get the idea. . .

Other “Rules”:

TimeLine – This should be fun not stressful. I like and have adopted Dennis’ idea of starting now and letting it go until next spring some time. More accurately, we will finish at midnight CST on Memorial Day (May 29) 2017. I chose Memorial Day and CST so it would be easy for me to remember, I’m selfish like that . I think this is the best way to get a lot of people involved. You can start at any time during the year but you have to finish by the deadline. I recognize that this may make following the threads less fun because it will drag out. That brings me to the next “Rule.”

Check-ins – Once you throw your hat in the ring, people will be eagerly awaiting your progress. We don’t want traffic in the challenge section to stall out midyear. After you start your thread, you should post, at least bi-weekly even if just to say you have made no progress. Obviously more posts are better with lots of pictures but if you project is on the back burner just let us know you haven’t forgotten about it. Keep in mind these rules are not really strictly enforced (or enforced at all).

Price cap – I must admit, I’m at a bit of a loss here. I’m going to throw out $150 as the cap mostly because I thing that is what we used once before. I’m open to amending this number. I think the only things that we should assign cost to are parts and building materials. Finish, glue, sandpaper and even strings would be excluded from your total costs. We are not sending a team of accountants out to audit your books just give reasonable estimates. If you use something you got for free you don’t necessarily have to count anything against your total, but if your friend gave you a BRW back and side set last year you should probably not call that $0.

Making the deadline - Basically post a video of the instrument being played by the deadline.

Prizes – Dennis has offered to make a set of hardwood tuner buttons as a prize (thanks!) over the course of the challenge anyone who wants to offer up a prize should do so. As the deadline approaches, we will discuss voting and prize allocations.

Charities – Like all the other rules remember this is for fun and use your own judgment. If you choose the donate route, no one is going to call the legitimacy your chosen charity into question. Try to avoid making an awesome guitar and claiming your wife really needs a small guitar for your living room. Please do however, post as much detail as you can about where the instrument is going. We all love to get warm fuzzies!

Lance, you can start the subforum at your convenience.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Thanks for the post, Bryan. The one comment I have is that the price cap of $150 seems a tad on the low side. The cost of a set of tuners would take a good chunk out of that. The materials costs for my guitars typically fall around $450 excluding things like a pickup, a case, or fancy, pricey woods.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Like I said, I am open to discussion on that front. I was really not sure what was appropriate. I used the $150 because that is what we did in the past but it seemed like it could be too low. The other side of that coin is that the limit should represent some sort of challenge. If it is too high, it is just people making parlor guitars.

Edit/addition:

My guess is that the donate or cost limit will be where the pick two decision lies for most people. If someone is planing on keeping the instrument, they could always complete it with the intention of upgrading tuners or adding electronics later. That could offer some wiggle room. I suppose if the lower the limit the more donations there will be which is a plus in my book. I intend to try to do all three options and am already sad at the loss of my project and it isn't even started yet

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Lance was good enough to start a subforum for this. Look in the board index for the 2016 builder challenge. Feel free to start your thread any time. I will also start a thread there to discuss tweaks to the rules since we still have some work to do on the spending limit. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Thanks for doing this. I'll be in with my salvaged wood super cheap travel guitar.

Hi guys, I haven't looked on here for ages and haven't built anything for over a year, but I've just seen this challenge and its making me want to start again. I'll be in with a weird experimental parlour guitar that's been buzzing around in my head for a few months. Hopefully the long time frame will mean I might actually get it finished!

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"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Bump, three people entered so far. Let's get many more!

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Bryan, I will have to skip this one. The guitars I have in the pipeline will be more like $400=$500 in materials cost and my time in the shop is too limited to toss in another build. I will follow along with great interest though.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm going to be watching with interest from the sidelines too. The all-in cost of materials for the parlor I'm starting will be between $400 and $500.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Dumb question - but did we ever decide on what is a "parlor"
There are about 30 different definitions that run from "anything but a dread" to "Martin published in their 1893 catalog that size 1 was the smallest professional plantilla... So 'parlor' is size 2 and smaller" and everything in between.

Thanks