Official Luthiers Forum!

Well, I finally got my neck bolt system going.
I looked at 4 different brands and settled on the steel inserts from Mcfeely's. The reasons I went with this insert was that it has a very agressive thread,it has a hex shaped hole to drive it in with(I use their driver) and I like the idea of steel(stronger) than the brass ones.

First I drilled to 9/32" holes through the neck block to allow a little wiggle room for the 1/4" bolts:





Then I use a transfer punch (great tool!)to mark the exact location of the hole centers in the headblock to the neck:


Here's the whole set of punches:



Here's the one I am using:





Here it is inside the guitar-simply push it with your hand and it transfers the mark to the neck:












Next I drill the holes for the inserts-as you can see there is already a 1/2" dowel inserted in the heel for the inserts to bite into. I am using my drill press for this operation.My drill press has a unique feature-the table turns horizontally so I can drill the holes with precision:







After I drill the holes to a little deeper than the insert I chamfer the holes.

And finally I screw the inserts in using a little thick CA with a cordless drill on low being careful to go in squarely.






I really like how this is working out-everything lines up nice and the inserts aint comin'out!!

Nice, simple procedure. Thanks, Brad!

_________________
now known around here as Pat Foster
_________________
http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Very well done Brad and that guitar looks pretty cool too!!!  Many thanks my friend!

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars

Thanks Brad.....Great job .. ....I am going to use this type of bolt on system on my next build.....Thanks again

Love the transfer punches, where'd you get those? I'd like to get them for the same exact purpose

Tery,
They come from Harbor Freight-$9.99 for the set!!

Brad-
How do you align the neck and hold it in place while you are using the transfer punch? I've found that this is a hassle without a mortise and tenon to help with alignment.

Any tips?


Thanks
John

John,
Funny you should mention that, because I forgot to post the picture of that step-so here it is.
What I did was clamp the fretboard on the neck with a couple of spring clamps and lined up the center line- I simply held it there while I pushed the transfer punch in:

This is all cool, and it's very much how i did it for years, even down t the drill press and punches. I finally just made a pair of simple jigs with drill bushings, though, and can build the neck and body separately, and everything lines up in the end. And it means my necks are  now interchangeable/replaceable....

But you can also clearly see why I moved away from the inserts and toward the hanger bolt. Not a whole lot of that dowel is left. Yes, the inserts are in no danger of being pulled loose, that will never be the issue. But the heel can crack too easily from an impact, if you carve it as dainty as I try to do mine... The hanger bolts leave a lot more dowel, and leaves a much stronger heel area. Also simpler to install.

Mario, your jig is very cool. I saw it on your website a year or so ago and
copied it. Hope you don't mind. Works great!    

_________________
Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Yes,Mario-I do see your point and I plan on using the hanger bolt system on one of my next guitars.

If I didn't want to share, I wouldn't show those things on my site; feel free to use anything you see. It's what I do when i visit others' sites <bg>

Do give the bolts a try. Don't get me wrong, the inserts served me well,  and they'll serve you well also, but I did have two necks crack at the insert hole after accidents. Neither one opened up(thanks to the dowel), and both repaired perfectly with a little hide glue and have held up for years now, but it did make me look at it all to see if it could be stronger.

[QUOTE=grumpy]If I didn't want to share, I wouldn't show those things on my site; feel free to use anything you see. .
[/QUOTE]

Mario..Where can I find this site to have peek....Thanks larry

That there's the secret...

Larry,
It's www.proulxguitars.com
Great website!

Mario, I remember you use jig that fits into your truss slot for markiing and drilling holes into the neck. What I can't remember, and don't have the issue of the Guitar Maker or article in handy (been moving and lost a box of good stuff, even planes and tools)is jig that marks the position and for marking and/or drilling holes into body. Is that on your site, if so keep missing it or if not could you sometime show this. I am still very interested in the butt join . TIA

Sorry hit wrong button before finish. Brad, good article.

Thanks Brad,,,,
Mario.....Holy Moses....Is that a pic of you on the web site...Sure, you are just a young whipper snipper....With your vast knowledge and wisdom I had you pictured like this....


<laughing>....<Running>....<Ducking>

Just 'cause he's grumpy,doesn't mean he's old....

That photo's also 6 years old <g> Still no grey, and no hair loss, though.... I started at this young enough. The site is in the midst of a complete makeover. It'll look VERY different once I get 'er done.

Body jig looks the same as the neck one, without the truss rod index part. I use fine lines to line it with the top's centerline and the back's... Really simple. One clamp via the soundhole. I have 80 grit paper glued to it so that it doesn't skate around under light clamping, BTW. That's about the only "trick".

Brad, great tutorial thank you for taking the time to document, explain and share.

I see that you use a 1/2" dowel for the reason explained. Would you also recommend using a 1/2" dowel if you used a neck tenon/body mortise joint like many do?

Mario, cool jig on your website for lining up the drill bit for your neck joint.

Guys, Mario is actually a lot older than he appears on his website. Living as far north as he does, has a preservative effect <bg>

Anthony,
I don't think people use the dowel on the tenon style because there is not enough wood there.
Collings uses a dovetail shaped tenon with a dowel in it with the hanger bolt system.

Anthony and Brad, I use a 1/2" dowel on my tenoned necks. Without it, the sides of the tenon tend to blow out when installing the inserts, but having the dowel in the tenon stabilizes the tenon and actually the insert only screws into the dowel as it's less than 1/2" in diameter (drill size that is).

I want to give the hanger bolts a try, should work out great with a mortise and tenon too.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

How ironic it is that the hanger bolt neck attachment has been a mainstay of banjo builders for so long

Dave