Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm not sure how you guys deal with this but when you get to the waist particularly on the back the gap at the bottom where the binding is straight and the body falls away if you clamp the binding down to in, it pulls away at the waist so you then clamp it these and it throws it out there and I just ended on the top clamping it into position, and on the back I glued it from the bottom of the guitar round to the waist let it dry and the clamp it and pull it into submission. The only other way I thought of was to use super glue a accelerator.

I see why you guys like binding tape rather than masking tape may try gaffer tape next time round just wondering I could possibly be exaggerated by tall bindings 9mm x 2mm or 0.35" x 0.80" I don't know

Thanks for your opinion guys.

John

_________________
Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Do yourself a favor and use smaller bindings next time. Mine are typically 1/4" tall and about .060" thick. If your using a cutter than references and is on plane with the sides, you should get a fair fir but there is always a little unwillingness near the waist on the back. You just have to be insistent and don't give up.

This is a perennial problem, but as John said, you are making it much worse by using such tall bindings. It looks classier to use narrower, anyway. 1/4" max, and you can go as short as 3/16" and look good. Some people do compound bending to get a little twist in the binding where needed.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Not such a problem on guitars that don't have a tight waist, like a dreadnought.

In addition to what John and Howard said about binding size, coupla things can help.

I do the compound bend like Howard mentioned. Prepare two small cauls, with the same curve as the waist, to be used with bar clamps to pinch the bindings into the waist. Now, without glue, tape your bindings on tightly, except the waist, and heat the bindings in the waist area, as if you were bending them (which is what we're doing here). I use a Seal tacking iron used in dry mounting artwork, turned all the way up, and a damp cloth to help conduct the heat. We're essentially putting a twist in the bindings at the waist, a twist that needs to be there because of the profile of the sides. When the binding gets hot enough to be pliable, quickly use the clamp and the caul to hold the binding against the waist. Take care not to squeeze the waist too much. If you're using a damp cloth, take care that you don't heat the side too much. Works especially well with stiffer woods. Let it cool completely, remove, and bind as usual. This bit of extra effort spent ahead of time can reduce fighting the binding later on to get good fit.

Also, as has been mentioned here numerous times, put a bit of a bevel on the inside edge of the binding to ensure that it sits well down into the inside corner of the binding channel.

Pat

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Yeah thought it was to do with the height as much as anything. But how would you guys of solved it

_________________
Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

I'm pretty sure you meant 0.08" thickness which is a bit on the thick side of things. I like my bindings to be 0.07" which could have helped too.

Question, did you bevel the inside bottom edge of the bindings before installing? That can help seat the binding in the channel better too.

I also use strapping tape which is pretty hard to break, it doesn't stretch and you can really pull on it. I also don't apply any glue till the binding is installed. I use CA for my bindings. Just have to really force the binding into shape. I've heard it said that your bindings are not installed tight enough if your fingers aren't killing you when you're done.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

ive only bound one guitar, but i bound that guitar twice because of the same problem you are having. the first time a used LMI binding tape and an embarrassing amount of precariously placed clamps to try and get everything tight. the results were completely unacceptable. so i cut it all off and built a similar contraption to what todd pictured. i used the same stew mac rubber bands he mentioned and got gapless bindings the second time around.

i would also agree that the height of your binding is definitely contributing to your problem, but i think you might be able to get it done right with the above mentioned method. the stew mac rubber bands are pretty cheap and you can use some scrap plywood or whatever you have laying around and some drywall screws to build the jig. my jig differs from todds in that the guitar sits on its side rather than on its back. i can post a picture if you would like, although todd's picture says it all. hope that helps.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bindings,_t ... Bands.html

_________________
sweat the small stuff.

Must admit, I just stuck em on the iron and bent to the same contour then they seem to fit very snuggly and tight even with odinary masking take during gluing - extra piece on the waste but no problems really.

I hold my bindings in place with 3m strapping tape. After all is taped up and before the glue sets I use cauls made of PVC pipe slightly smaller diameter than the waist shape. These cauls are attached to a quick release bar clamp. I clamp at the waist to pull in tight. It does not take much force on the clamp at all and insures the waist is dead flush. You must tape up all the way tight the best you can first so that the transition into the waist from either side does not want to pull a way but this has for me eliminated the need to tube or rope wrapping ad requires far less tape than using tape only.

Step ahead there had made some spool type clamps to hold the waist in and other spots too

John

_________________
Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes