Official Luthiers Forum!

Greetings folks!

We have been offered the opportunity to orchestrate another D'Addario bulk string buy. Many of you were not here for the first one, so this is a chance to get in on a very good thing!

For those of you who were here, I have a couple thoughts. The first time we did this for all-intents-and-purposes a misfire from the service end. We left the date open too long, prolonged the deadlines for people who wanted in but were gathering up the cash, took too long to order, and weren’t prepared for the amount of work that breaking down, repackaging, and shipping the orders entailed. In the end everybody got a great deal on some fantastic strings, but it was rough on everyone.

Now that we know what to expect, we have made some changes and I think this one will go much smoother. Sorry if this document seems a little crabby. Last time we tried to bend over backward to make sure everyone got in, allowed people to break down basic quantities, etc. and the net result was we had a big mess on our hands. This time around we think that if we “simplify” it it will go much smoother. We want everyone to be happy and to feel like they got a great deal.

I have created this FAQ to help explain how we think it will work, and to answer any questions we anticipate you might have.


What kind of strings are they?
For this go round we are only offering D’Addario Phospor Bronze Lights and Mediums. We might include other products later, but for this go round it is just these two.

How will the strings be packaged?They will be packaged as a gross of SETS of strings (144 sets). They will be packaged in flat non corrosive bags. These are not retail packaged. I store mine in some cut off pieces of PVC pipe. It works great.

What is the cost?
$360 per gross of sets. This includes domestic shipping. That works out to $2.50 a set delivered.

Yes, this is more expensive than last time. Again, live and learn. Now that we have a sense how much work this is we think this is very fair price, helps compensate us for the time we have invested, and adds a little to the OLF coffers.

What if I want fewer than 144 sets of strings?
That is certainly understandable. I would suggest that you and a few friends go together, elect one person to be your representative and have him (or her) order the strings. We will ship to this person and they can then break the strings down however you like and ship them out to your group.

For the sake of simplicity we are only shipping full grosses this time.

Is there any limit to how many I can order?
You can certainly order MORE than one gross, but we have a one gross minimum.

Will you ship internationally?
Again, coming from the live and learn department. No. I hate to exclude our friends who are international, but shipping overseas was really tough last time. We may elect to bring that back into the equation on future string sales if this one goes well and there is sufficient interest – but not this time.

If you are international and want in, I would suggest that you ask a friend in the US to receive them for you and reship, you may even want to participate in a mini-group buy where you don’t have to buy a full gross.

If I want to find some friends to split an order can I use the forum to do that?
Of course, but please don’t use the main string communication threads to broker these deals. We will start a special thread for this type of activity.

When do I pay?
You will need to pay us via pay pal at lance@luthiersforum.com when you place the order.

How do I pay?
The ONLY way we are taking orders is by submitting a pay pal to us for $360. In it make sure that 1) your correct shipping address is included, and 2) In the note field make sure to mention whether you want lights or mediums.

I repeat… please make sure that 1) your correct shipping address is included, and 2) In the note field make sure to mention whether you want lights or mediums. If this is not in there your order might get messed up.

Is this the ONLY way I can order?
Yes, it is the only way. Please don’t email me, PM me, post it in the thread or anything else. That is too hard for me to keep track of and I could easily miss something or make a mistake. The ONLY way your order will be processed is by paying via the pay pal account.

Also, all orders have to be in before the morning of September 1st to get in on this deal.

What if I don’t use Pay Pal and want in on the deal?
If that is the case I would organize a partial buy with some friends and have one of them submit the pay pal.

Can I change my mind and change and cancel my order?
If you make changes before September 1st yes, you can cancel or change your order. After that you may not cancel or make changes.

When will I get the strings?
We are going to hold the purchase time open until EOD August 30th. So anyone who orders before September 1st can get in on the deal. After that we will place the order with D’Addario. They will then manufacture the strings and ship them to us. Based on how many we order that process may take a few weeks. After that we will begin repackaging and mailing out the orders. My guess is you should have them in your hands by mid-October … possibly a little sooner.

How will you keep us in the loop about the progress of the strings?Ah, if anywhere we botched it up last time it is here. We did a pretty miserable job at this and this time we are going to open and make sticky a thread that communicates the progress. It will notify you when the deadline is approaching, it will tell you the day we order, tell you the day we receive them, and make periodic postings as we are shipping them out. I think the last time around this would have been much better on everyone if we would have been more diligent at keeping everyone in the loop.

Thanks everyone!
Once again, pay pal address is lance@luthiersforum.com
No need to place your order with in this thread, just via paypal please.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Nice, Lance...thanks for organizing this again.

To fellow OLFers. I am interested in buying 36 sets. I was a distributor last time but this time I would prefer to go along with someone who is ordering. If anyone needs a partner, please PM me. TIA

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I am interested in 36 sets of lights if anyone wants to buddy up....trouble is, I am from England..... If any US citizen is willing to re-ship, I'll buy 'em a drink next time I see 'em...

I'll take 36 too JJ so we need one or two more partners to be as gross as we need to be.

I think that Lance was going to start another thread for us to collaborate in for shared grossness.

Many thanks Lance!!!!

yes Hesh you are correct,. lets start another thread for collaborating orders.
That way this one stays clean. Ill move your posts to it once its started...

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Only steel strings?? Baaahh, Humbug!

Next time it's Pro Arte's, and you steel string guys can take a hike!

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Yeah!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hi Lance,

It's not entirely clear to me how the strings are packaged. First, your statement that you store them in PVC pipe suggests that the strings are not coiled, like they are in ordinary retail packaging. That would mean that the packages are the full length of the strings. Is that correct? Second, is each individual set of strings (six strings, from low E to high E) packaged in its own non-corrosive bag?

(A technical follow-up to that is: Can we assume that a set of strings in a sealed, non-corrosive package has an indefinite shelf-life? ...The strings will not show any signs of corrosion even after some years have passed, as long as the package has not been opened?)

My other question is, can we buy a gross that is composed of some sets of each type - lights and mediums. In other words, can I order a 1/2 gross of lights and 1/2 gross of mediums, without having to split my order with another OLF member?

Thanks!
Todd

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I will reply Todd -

the strings are not packaged coiled .. they are straight. They are packaged one string per bag, ie, only A strings in this bag .. so you get six bags of strings per gauge, ie light or med. I take it they send Lance extra bags, because the last time we ordered, the strings were not actually sealed in bags of 144, or per gross - they pack them 250 at a time. So to get a gross, the bags must be opened, and have some removed and rebagged. i would have preferred to have known this, and then been able to actually buy completely sealed bags of 250 - but I dont think it works this way (kinda like why are hot dogs sold in 12s, but the buns in 8s)

I keep mine in the bags, albiet open now at one end, in a 4 inch pipe sealed at both ends. Thsi at least keeps air from flowing, thus keeping oxidation at a minimum. What I do when I need strings is to open the tube, and put together coiled sets maybe 10-15 at a time, and keep them in a ziplock bag. Saves opening the tubes all that often.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Another option for the extremely anal musician would be to hand coil (with gloved hands, of course) each set into a vacuum food bag, evacuate the air and seal them. That would insure that no more air would react with the strings until the packages were opened. For $2.50 a set, what's a little personal labor to insure against catastrophic string oxidation!

Then again, one would have to know the out-gassing properties of the plastic film package and what deleterious effect it might have on the string material. Then there's the dilemma of coiling strings into 6 inch diameter vs. 9 inch diameter bags....Oh dear!

Also up for consideration is to inject nitrogen into the PVC tubes (if that's what you choose once you've certified PVC) and seal the ends each time after it is opened.

But what I want to know is...
- how long were my strings exposed to air before I receive them?
- did handlers along the way wear gloves and insure that their skin oils did not contaminate them in any way?
- will we receive certification from the manufacturer as to the dimensions and physical properties of the strings?
- hopefully, others will have additional concerns

For the record, I am not disrespecting any individual...just being silly, irreverent and of course, showing my normal healthy cynicism.

Also for the record...many thanks to Lance and D'Addario!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Excuse me for being a bit of a knob, but when you say you wont't ship internationally, does that mean you will not ship to Canada either?
David Gilmore

Correct, USA only.
You can however team up with another state side member and work out a deal...

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I think the fact that these strings are not in sealed bags per set of six is something to seriously consider. Speaking for myself, I know it would take me at least a couple years to go through 144 sets. Even with a half gross, I would expect there to be some losses (strings becoming too oxidized to use) before I'd use them up. The possibility of having a bunch of strings go to waste makes me feel like this: . Considering that, and the time and inconvenience involved in properly storing these, $2.50 a set doesn't really sound better to me that the $5.20 a set I now pay buying them in 25 set boxes.

Go ahead and give me one of these if you want, but I'll pass, and I suggest that others consider these factors before jumping on this.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Gee thanks Todd!

Nothing like being a buzz kill!

If you had some data to back up your claim, it would be a good warning. But just "assuming" that things will go wrong is not a very good reason to try to steer people away.
If we cant get this group buy large enough, then its not worth the effort that I will have to put in to it to do it.

I have strings I got from a bulk sale Paul Woolson did 3 or 4 years ago, again, stuck in PVC piping, no problems yet.
I also have a gross of lights from last year, no problems.
With this order a "gross" will be shipped in 6 individual bags, 144 of each size string, in a corrosive proof factory sealed bags.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

No animosity intended, Lance. I know you're in this for the good of the community. I'm glad to hear that buying strings like this has worked well for you, and it will probably work well for a lot of folks here who go ahead and take you up on this.

In my experience, when I have strings around for a couple years or more that are NOT in sealed bags like the kind D'Addario uses with their retail packaging, they are no good any more. That's enough data for me to consider this too much of a risk. Others will disagree with me, I'm sure. So be it. I only mean to be of help by calling attention to something I think is worthwhile to consider that some people may have overlooked in the excitement of $2.50 a set.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd my friend we had another group buy approx. a year ago, same situation, strings not pre-packaged as retail sets. I purchased 1/4 gross thinking that I will never use them up in time either and I was also concerned about corrosion as well.

My strings came from JJ in a gallon sized plastic bag, good quality, and I just left them in this bag in my RH controlled shop.

Now a year or more later I have used more than half of my sets and the remaining strings look as good as new. I actually think that strings will keep pretty well as I received mine, in a plastic bag. So I am going to get another 1/4 gross because this is a GREAT deal and yet another way to help support our community.

Todd...are you aware of any solid studies regarding the performance of strings packaged in the manner that we will be receiving. If so, then I will consider changing my opinion. If not, then your opinion falls into the same category as much of the soft information that we hear on the forum every day...no real evidence, just an unproven theory.

The fact is that many builders have stored strings in this manner (PVC Tubes) and actually sell their guitars to the most critical professional musicians...and this is the first time I have ever heard that the tone of a guitar is reduced. I wonder why D'Addario would even allow their strings to be sold in such a manner if they knew performance would be compromised.

With all due respect, you have every right to such an opinion. I will be skeptical of that opinion until I have much more convincing data.

I guess my original tongue-in-cheek storage suggestions might have had an interested audience after all.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill here.

Poke a small hole in the bag big enough to pull one string out. When you are done cover the hole with a little piece of duct tape, store the bag in a piece of PVC and you are all set.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Do we get the cool retail tags this year again?

Lance, Brock, and everybody,

I apologize. My intention was to be helpful, but I regret the way I handled this.

Although I have had sets of strings get visibly corroded sitting on my shelf unused for long periods of time, which is what gave me cause for concern about this, I have not, in fact, bought and stored strings in the way being described here. It sounds like it has been done successfully by enough people that my concern is unwarranted, given that the strings are handled with care to minimize excessive air exposure and contact with skin.

Lance and Brock, I truly do greatly appreciate all that you guys do, and I hope this string purchase works out great for all concerned. Once again, I apologize and I hope I haven't done too much damage to your cause.

I'll go sit in the corner now, and you all please carry on.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I'll take a gross of the lights, but it will have to wait until I get a couple of commissions paid. make sure we get ample notice when the deadline gets nearer please?

Also, the nifty little retail tags would be a BIG plus for me too.

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Reguards,

Ken H

No prob Todd!

Ken, the deadline for orders is EOD August 30th.

By the way Ken thanks for the PM

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Hey Guys,

During the daytime I am an industrial water treatment guy and one of the products that we use in the off line cooling season to protect the systems from corrosion is a powdered vapor phase corrosion inhibitor by a company called Cortec. I see on the DiAddario package that they use this same technology to protect the strings. I'll tell you just one bag of this material would protect everyones gross of strings on this site (I think). I would just need to look into this with my supplier, just to verify that this material would work on phosphor bronze metalurgy, not just ferrous metal. I am just envisioning that I could send anyone interested a small package of this stuff and they could put this in their large hefty bag of strings and have the strings protected from corrosion until the next ice age. Any body interested, in fact, maybe I could just work out something with Lance and he could just put this material in with each order. Let me know what you think.

Kurt

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_____________________________

Kurt Thomas

"There's a first time for everything even if you do it by mistake."

You rock Kurt!

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Just because you asked! You sound pretty smart, to me, Kurt.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars