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When I routed the binding channel the back pulled away from the lining about a 2 inch stretch. I didn't notice until the binding and purfs were glued in place. Now it is a real problem.

How can I best take this joint apart and re-glue the 2 inch stretch of back to the lining? Can this be done without wrecking the binding??? Any ideas? Thanks!

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

2 or 3 quick grip clamps, some thin CA in a pipette and a lot of attention. Clamp the gap shut first making sure you have no gap in the binding/purfling lines, don't over clamp, and wick some thin CA with the pipette. Not too much, or you'll make a mess inside. let cure and clean up. You could use HHG if the binding, rim and back were glued with it.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

Hi Steve,

Still finding new ways to make mistakes I see. Me too. Laurent is leading you down a good path. What type of glue did you use?

Steve

Thanks Laurent (and Steve). I used LMI glue. The problem is that the back is now held in place by the binding. So, I am going to try to heat the back and separate it from the binding and then clamp and glue as Laurent has advised.

Wish me luck!

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

I would strip the binding off the one side and then you will have better access to the joint. Better to make sure that the repair is done properly than risk problems down the road. At least, that is how I would approach the problem.

And for the record, I have found that LMI white glue has a very short open time. It is fine when it is layered on thick but once you spread it out to a thin layer then it dries really, really fast. In this one application (gluing the plates to the rim), I prefer Titebond over LMI white glue.

Thanks, Simon. Good to hear your experience in this. I am going to change my glue preference at least for this operation.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

You will need to heat and release the glue that's bonding the binding to the back. Is there any purfling? If not, then this will be easy. Just heat an exacto knife (not red hot, but pretty hot) and slip it carefully between the binding and the back. I would work the blade in there enough to try to actually remove most of the glue, so that it doesn't re-bond before you can wick CA in there. Then, I would do as Laurent suggests. You can probably just use tape to clamp it all back together before wicking CA in.

Even if there is purfling, the method I'm describing will probably work fine, it might just be a little trickier.

If I were you, and if this guitar is not for a customer, then in this situation I would want to be sure I got plenty of glue in there and not worry too much about making a mess inside. What matters is that the guitar holds together and plays and sounds good. Nobody's going to be looking way down in there anyway. I might even try to get in there and wick some CA into the joint from the inside, too.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

With all due respect Todd, I do not see the purpose of separating binding/purfs from the back. Fresh thin CA will wick in the tightest places and secure the joints. However I see potential for accidents and mishaps, especially with a thin x-acto blade…
It sounds like closing the box took too long and exceeded your glue's open time. If it were me I'd wipe a bit of shellac to seal the top's edges and wick thin CA with a pipette over the back and top joints with the rim, and between the sides and bindings. That and crossing your fingers should take care of any spot that could come unglued.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I agree with the CA .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Thanks, gentlemen for all of the detailed suggestions. I now have a plan and a plan B and will let you know how it goes!!

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

My suggestion was in response to this observation from Steve. I'd have to see it in person to be certain what the best solution is, but if the back is glued to the binding, the binding is glued to the sides/lining, and there's space between the back and the lining, then you'd have to separate the back from the binding in order to clamp it down to the lining. It might not actually require heat to do this, but I would heat the knife so it slides into the joint easily.

Taking another look at the second (exterior view) photo, though, it looks like the binding also may not be seated all the way down into its rabbet - there appears to be a gap between the binding and the side. Is that right, Steve? If so, and it (the binding) is glued in place that way, then, obviously, the binding needs to be separated from the sides/lining so that it can be re-positioned and reglued (with CA, wicked in). Again, if there's no purfs, this should be easy to do. Then again, you always have the other option of routing it off and doing it over.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

It should be pretty easy to slide a hot knife (x-acto or palette) down between the back and the binding - or between the purfs and the binding (it does look like you've got purfs between the back and the binding) - and then on down between the binding and the side/lining to separate the binding from the side/lining. At that point, most likely, the back and purfs would be free to move (as a unit) and be clamped down in to place, and the binding clamped into place, and then everything reglued by wicking in CA.

If you've got glue buildup in there where it's hard to get to (such as underneath the purfs) that's keeping things from going back in position the way they should, then you may have to go to routing everything off - or removing all the binding and purfling with a hot knife, which is also possible.

If, on the other hand, the binding is not bonded to the side/lining in that area - i.e. you can simply clamp the back and the binding down into place without having to first release any glue joints - then this is totally easy to do just as Laurent said in his first post (clamping with tape should work fine as well).

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

You have it exactly correct, Todd. The way I see it I have to loosen everything up and hope the back can be urged back into contact with the lining along that 2" stretch and glued into place. The binding has a very slight gap which I might be able to clean out and push the binding back against the rabbet.

If that doesn't work, I am going to route the binding off to get to the joint and get it prepped properly.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

I'm concerned that what you have found is that your back is not well adhered to the linings. You may fix the one known bad area, but what about the rest of the back? I find it hard to believe that only a small portion is not glue well.
You might want to think about taking the entire back off and reapplying it.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Hi gang, thanks for all of the encouragement. It went better than I had hoped. I used a hair dryer with a clamp on the area with a curved caul on the spot I wanted to move back into place. I applied heat for only about 1 minute and it released and dropped onto the lining perfectly. The purfling stayed in place on the back and the back released from the binding easily. Once it was reglued I leveled the binding... you can see for yourself. I do have to fill the slight gap between the side and binding, but that will go easily.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck