Official Luthiers Forum!

I recently came across the website for Cure UV where they show their package for finishing guitars. Here it is:

http://www.cureuv.com/uv-guitar-finishing.html

Is anyone familiar with their products?

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

I noticed that companies they list as using it include PRS, Simpson guitars and Greenfield. Greenfield makes acoustics and I believe Simpson guitars does as well.

This looks really interesting. The though off being able to apply the finish in a day is very appealing.

Josh

_________________
Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Thanks Pat. Very interesting.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Did anybody call for a Quote yet?
http://www.cureuv.com/total-cure-uv-gui ... binet.html

The guitar finishing value pack is $2600 USD

http://www.cureuv.com/total-cure-uv-pow ... e-pak.html

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Interestingly, this site links to the videos from Admiralty Varnish (or the other way around I suppose).

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Are they one and the same?

I recently bought some cureuv.com product (uv cure sealer, filler, and topcoat) to see how good it was. I'm still learning how to use it properly though. My current UV lamps aren't quite powerful enough apparently. I have to leave the work under the lamps for quite a while to get it to cure, so the work is getting very hot - I wouldn't do a guitar with it yet!

I have one of the cureuv.com handheld UV lamps on the way to me (should be here tomorrow all being well!) that will cure the stuff much faster. I'll report back when I've played with it over the next few days. Ultimately, I may replace the lamps in my curing booth with some new ones from cureuv.com.

The later work I have done with it (marquetry pictures) has come out very nicely indeed. I scorched a few pieces of wood before I got the hang of it though!

More later,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

Dave,
Any chance you could post a picture of the pieces you finished along with how you finished them?
Thanks,
Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Pat, I don't have any pictures of the marquetry pieces, sorry (I had to rush them out for people's Christmas presents and never got time).

My new hand-held UV lamp unit arrived from cureuv.com today. I gave it a test run on a EIRW headplate with maple logo inlay. Here are some photos:







The finish is really difficult to photograph.....best I can do is a) show it dead on so you can see it's clear, and flat/even, and b) show it with some lamp reflection. If you look really closely at the photo with the light reflection, you can see me with my camera on a tripod mirrored in the finish!

The procedure I used was as follows:

1. Sand to 320 grit
2. Wipe on a thin layer of insulator/sealer and set it aside to dry for 15 minutes
3. Wipe on a thin layer of gel filler
4. UV cure it - ran the lamp over it slowly - about a 5 second pass -> cured!
5. Lightly sand with 320 grit
6. Repeat 3, 4, 5, and 6 above (another gel filler coat)
7. HVLP spray a thin topcoat and leave it for 5 minutes (spreads out nice and flat in this time)
8. UV cure it - ran the lamp over it slowly - about a 5 second pass -> cured!
9. Lightly sand with 320 grit
10. Repeat 7 and 8 but with a slightly heavier topcoat
11. Stand back and admire

The result is an almost flawless finish, nice and hard and very shiny and clear. The only issue was that I didn't really spend time to clean up properly after the light sanding between coats and so ended up with a few nibs in the finish. I think a wipe over with DNA (is this okay I wonder? - I will call John, the apps guy at cureuv.com and find out) after each sanding is called for.

I think it will look even better after some polishing on the wheels with Menzerna.

Cheers,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

Thanks very much for posting the pictures Dave. This is very enticing. I'd be interested to hear of any further progress you make. It looks like getting a nub-free finish might be a bit of a challenge. I noticed in the video from Admiralty Coatings that he also had some nubs which he attributed to a not perfectly clean applicator.
Cheers,
Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Are nubs really an issue? Isn't that what level sanding and buffing is for?

Hey Dave,

How does that stuff sand? Does it clog easy sanding dry?

How many top coats to you figure on? Just the two?

Also....let us know if it polishes easier or harder with the Menzerna coumpounds or if it might be better with different compounds.

I'm not into waiting for nitro to harden so this looks quite interesting. I'll probably order this stuff after I know a little more.

Thanks for posting!

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Dave, what are you using for a gun to spray this? What nozzle size, pressure setting, flow, etc? - Justin

Hi Folks,

I played some more with the UV finish and I think I have it down. The new handheld lamp from cureuv.com seems to be the way to go - it cures in seconds and doesn't heat the work up too much at all.

I tried it on a scrap soundboard that I had - sadly, this was a primo sinker top that crumbled and split on me at 0.115" I glued it to a sitka top in the hopes of maybe using it one day, but the darned thing warped uncontrollably and split some more, so I gave up on it. It made a nice test piece for the cureuv finish though.

I used the same procedure as before - one coat of sealer (not really needed unless the wood is "oily"), two coats of gel filler, two top coats.

This time out I took care to filter the top coat into the HVLP cup. I used a Husky Pro (HDS series) gravity feed HVLP conversion gun ($99 from Home Depot) rather than my big Turbinaire HVLP system. I used the small cup that came with it. I have the air input set to 38psi (just under the 40psi mark). I set the air feed to about the 50% level and adjusted the fluid to suit. I goes on nicely, but it gets up your nose quite a bit - I'm going to use a mask with this stuff from now on.

The gel filler coats and top coats sand nicely. They are rock hard. Sanding (at 320 grit) produces dust only. It doesn't clog and/or ball up like the waterbourne stuff I've used before. It's much harder than any other finish I've ever used, so I found myself having to push the sanding quite a bit harder than I've ever had to - there was no chance of sanding through though....it seems quite safe/immune from that problem! Here's a picture showing the sanding in progress after one of the gel filler coats:



Here's the top right after curing the second top coat. It's a nice mirror finish (you can see the reflection of some bench/tools in it nicely), however there are nubs in the surface where dust got on the work. I really need to make a clean room/booth for spraying/finishing!



I flat sanded it (using water and wet/dry from 400 to 2500 grit), then used Menzerna "very fine" and "finest" on the buffer. Just as I was pulling the work off to put some more Menzerna on (a momentry lapse of concentration) BAM!, the buffer grabbed the top from me and slammed it into the floor! Split it right down the middle (interestingly, NOT on the glue line at all!). I super-glued it together again as best I could and then finished polishing it. Here's the final photo. It's not as shiny as it could be, I'm sure, but the finish is (IMHO) excellent.



I hope I covered all the questions you guys had - let me know if I missed any points or if you have any new questions.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the procedure and quality, so I'm going ahead and using it on a real live guitar (a coco OM-C). I'll have some photos of that up here shortly.

Cheers,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

Thanks a bunch Dave! This is enough to sell me...

Thanks very much Dave. I have two questions:

1) Do you anticipate a three dimensional guitar will be much more difficult than your flat test pieces? I'm thinking of things like how well the stuff will flow out on surfaces that will, for some time, be vertical or any time constrictions.
2) They advertise that the finish can be brushed on. This would be important to me as I am not currently set up to spray. I know you probably didn't try brushing but are you able to offer an opinion one way or the other on if you think this would work?

Again, I appreciate the updates.

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

hehe.....it'll be far more aggravating if he flings it with his buffer.

Thanks a LOT Dave for that report. I'm about to get setup up with this and this was quite helpful. I believe Kevin Ryan is using a UV cure polyester also and he is very happy happy with it.

Like all things....practice makes perfect but it sounds like this system has a relatively short learning curve leading to a professional result. Probably explains why so many manufacturers have taken to it.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Hi Dave,

I also appreciate you posting your experience with the Cure UV. One question I had which I'm not sure has been mentioned. Do you have any idea what you final finish thickness is? Just wondering how it compares to what people are getting with Nitro or other types of finish.

Josh

_________________
Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Graham Duncan at Admiralty Coatings commented that his finish could not be buffed out to a higher shine. He said that buffing, instead, produces a very nice satin finish. Looking at your final finish picture, Dave, I wonder if this is also true about the Cure UV system.

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Dude! I hope you are joking, but I fear you are not. "From now on"???

You do get how dangerous that UV light is, right?

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Pat - I sprayed and cured the guitar late Sat eve without any issues. The topcoat clings quite well to the vertical surfaces (the sides in my case, since I spray the back and front flat - with the work in a pattern maker's vise). After spraying, I left the top coat about 10 minutes for it to flow/flatten by itself before UV curing it. There were a couple of drips from the sides, but they did not present a problem. I would think that you could brush the top coat on, but it's going to be much harder to get an even thickness and keep it all nice and flat. You should invest in a small compressor and a $99 HVLP conversion gun IMO.



Josh - After spraying and curing the top coat, the finish thickness is between 0.005" and 0.007" - I measured it at the bridge and fretboard extension masked-off areas after I removed the masking tape. I think this is a tiny bit thicker than people aim for with nitro. I'm not a finishing expert by any means though - perhaps someone else with more knowledge can chime in? After flat sanding and polishing I think it will end up at about 0.004". I'll remeasure and post the result later. One positive note - it didn't seem to make much difference to the tap tone of the guitar I just did.



Pat - The shine right out of the uv curing process is awesome, however the nubs need removing. After flat sanding and polishing, I couldn't get the same shine back. I think it's due to the hardness of the finish. I'm going to try polishing a bit harder/longer to see if this can be improved. The finish on that test soundboard was more than a "nice satin" look - it did shine quite well, but just not "mirror" finish like it was right after curing. I had to stop trying to polish it once the darned thing got broke. I'll have pictures of the guitar later on tonight....that'll be the real test.



Howard - yes, I sure do know how dangerous the UV light is! I'm wearing the full protection kit when I do the curing. What I was referring to is that the smell of the top coat during spraying is a bit acrid even with the very low overspray/bounce spray I get from the HVLP gun (hence I'll wear a mask when spraying it from now on). Thanks for your concern though!

Cheers,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

Here we go....the proof of the pudding is in the eating.....I sanded and polished my coco OMC this evening. It came up beautifully. There's no way the finish could be described as "satin".....it's high mirror shine for sure! I'm very happy with how it came out, especially the clearness of the finish (no blue tinge like the waterbourne stuff). The final finish depth ended up a bit thinner than I thought it would..... it is right on 3 mil (0.003") average. The guitar taps very nicely and sounds almost exactly the same as it did before the finish was added. Here are some photos:

Light sanding between coats:


After curing the last finish coat. You can see it's very shiny, but not flat, and with a few nubs in it:


Here's the front view after finish sanding and polishing ( I perched the neck on and used tape to hold the bridge in place for the photo):


Here are a couple of shots of the back/sides:



Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

Looks great Dave. Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.