Official Luthiers Forum!

I have had the great good fortune to visit the UK on three different occasions. Driving around exploring as much as possible, I noticed a number of wonderful conifers there, particularly in Scotland. Coastal redwoods, Sitka spruces, Atlantic cedars, etc. Quite a surprise.
(And surely European spruce nearly everywhere?)
So my question, is any of that harvested for tonewood?
I.E., do you get to use any local woods for soundboards?

I'm just curious, as one day I hope to live there and of course build guitars with Colin and Dave.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

i live in ireland and ive never seen a sitka or similar tree that would be big enough
also none of the plantations that ive seen are managed properly
i think the spruces were planted around the 1940s
around mountains and other areas where it would not grow properly
i think they wanted a fast yield for poles and posts mainly
anyway it seems thier chopping most of the evergreen down
just at electricity pole thickness
i just hope they dont cut down this patch and do a bit
of pruning as its getting rougher looking
heres a pic of some trees in glencar sligo

Steve, none of the species you mention are native to the UK, even Norway spruce (Euro) does not have the UK as part of it's natural range. The climate here, due to the influence of the North Atlantic Drift, is relatively benign compared to the areas where tonewood harvesting takes place across Europe, and indeed the US. The plantation grown timber is planted for fast growing, early harvesting, mainly for pulp and any trees of tonewood species that have been planted would not make good plates due to low density, stiffness and size. The main plantation grown wood as you note is Sitka, and Steve as you know that is only good for pulp anyway! .

Large, examples of any of these trees would anyway have been planted for ornamental purposes, and if of a size that would yield tonewood would probably have tree preservation orders on them making their harvesting unlawful and even, if cut down, the market for the tonewood here in the UK would be so small as to make the processing for that purpose uneconomic. We have good access to very high quality European and Caucasian spruce so there just isn't the necessary market conditions to make a domestic tonewood industry economic.

We do have some very good hardwood species that can be used for instrument making, Plane, Cherry, Sycamore, Ash etc., but that's another story.

There is always a space in my shop for you Steve.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Hi Steve,
I'm not aware of tonewood sources here in Scotland, but I have wondered myself.
Although I know norwegian spruce (picea abies) and douglas fir do grow here, I have not personally seen any trees (or logs on lorries) in sizes large enough to be likely to produce tops (Although I am am east coast and not really that widely travelled in Scotland)
Most of the forestry here seem to be menaged, recent and to be produced for lumber, posts and battens or MDF/chipboard (or Xmas trees!)
The older forests, where they have survived, tend to be mainly scots pine and birches.
Maybe someone does know of potential Scottish tonewoods some where - can anyone else pitch in?

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Aaagh aye!!! Jimmie. Thar be noo 'tone' left in tha woods of Scotland! Aye cause it be true tha mournful sooond of yer blaz'in pipes has scared the wee rascal away .










Sorry, just could not help meself

Cheers

Kim

I've not heard of any UK grown wood for soundboards, at least not in a commercial sense. There have been a few one off builds using UK grown Douglas Fir. Precious few though.

A lot of those Douglas fir builds used doors from UK houses but I suspect the timber was originally imported. Remember the plant hunters (Douglas included) only brought back the seed in the 1800's so there are few trees of the right age and size and as Colin says they won't be fair game

Occasionally you get some English walnut and yew of the size and quality for backs and sides and there is also London plane, Sycamore and cherry too.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Hi Steve,
I live in the beauitful Scottish borders in the south surrounded by spruce but you'd be lucky to get some brace wood from them. I re-planted a couple of our little Christmas trees in our front garden when the kids were younger about fifteen years ago and they now stand about fifteen feet tall.
Maybe if I wait for a hundred years or so and they will be ready for some tops .

Bill

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Dream to be a luthier

Hilarious - Sounds/reads like a demented Glaswegian Pirate, in Aberdeen for a drunken weekend imitating Willie from the Simpsons. LOL

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Not quite true. Years ago one of the Guitar Magazines featured someone who built a Guitar out of UK timbers. The Douglas Fir was grown in the UK. It may have been a 3 or 4 piece Top. Not sure.
All those Hardwoods are fairly easy to obtain. I have some nice Walnut from Dyke that originally came from Kew.
I've also had some nice figured Maple from Scottish Hardwoods, had to resaw it myself though.

Aye..If we're no running aboot in oor kilts swingin' oor claymores, we're oot oan a haggis shoot wae oor blunderbus and sgian dubh ( Engish translation skean dhu a small dagger kept in the sock).

Bill

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Dream to be a luthier

Hey!...Ive never been to Aberdeen

Many thanks guys...as you respond, I get to do a wee bit of vicarious travel. What first got me pondering this was roaming about the grounds of Blair Athol outside Pitlochry, Scotland. Came face-to-face with a Sitka spruce large enough to keep a luthier busy the rest of his days. But your point about preservation is well taken Colin. (Though, I will let the slur pass--yet again--about Sitka's usefulness! )
Driving along Scotland's west coast we drove through a grove of redwoods, and I was having a California moment on the wrong continent.

Anyway, I guess luthing there is not unlike (TOO-unlike) luthing here in Texas. Soundboard wise that is. We're stuck importing our topwood.

Nonetheless, I long to return to your side of the pond, and I hope to do a luthier tour as the reason for travel.
Thanks for your replies, and your more than generous offer Colin!

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Well Steve - remember that Scotland is 'God's own Country'!

As was pointed out above by Colin, our main problem (despite the recvent cold spell that saw the RH drop to 20%) is its simply too warm so the spruce is simply growing too quickly... Walnut, Maple, Sycamore and Yew all local and all have been used in Guitar building. Some nice stuff. I am interested though in a Sequioa that is HUGE and is currently due to be felled that's in a National Trust Garden where my brother in law is the head gardener... in effect this tree must be 300 years old and close to 2 meters in base diameter ... might get to have a look when it comes down! But suspect it will be quite wide grained for the same reasons as above...

Aye, Frank, I believe your assessment of Scotland, modest as it is, has plenty of merit!
As for that Sequoia, if any looks usable, what a great story that would make for a guitar! (And save a set for me, as I'll be over to pick it up.)

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com