Official Luthiers Forum!

I see the odd guitar with reverse kerfing linings. I am curious to know what others think about the advantages and disadvantages of reverse kerf and traditional linings. There is no doubt traditional linings are much more common, at least in factory made guitars, and that has me wondering why one might ever choose the other.

I like the clean look of the reverse linings, but it's harder to hide the breaks if your linings snap on you. Also, the reverse linings seem to make the rims much stiffer. People will debate the pros and cons of it the stiffer rim, but it makes building easier for me.

Mike

_________________
Mike Lindstrom

Todd nails it. I personally don't see any advantage . All it is is glue surface area . One thing is if you get your sides out of shape , you can't reshape them with reverse kerf.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I like them because they make a clean seamless look for the brace pockets (much fun for me making these with a sharp chisel) and are easier to clamp to the sides. If anyone wants a stiffened rim they should try laminated/solid

_________________
Build log

I'm very used to working with the standard type kerfed linings and have acquired a large supply over the years (inexpensively) so that certainly makes the decision to use that type rather easy.
I've also used the solid bent type but as long as I don't have to make the kerfed type, the solid bent type is more labor intensive.
The Torres style brace ends (full height with rib blocks and linings cut all the way through) makes for a very stiff structure so I don't think the lining type (at least more or less standard sizes) makes much difference overall.

I never have seen a good reason to use reverse kerf linings. Don't feel the glue joint would be as good on the sides, so i don't use them.

I have made all my Mandolas with traditional Linings , and My first guitar with Reverse . I agree they are a little harder to put in but all in all I like them better . One upside , I made a mistake and caused a situation where I hand to sand the sides down an 1/8" to fix a The reverse linings made that job a super easy task where as the traditional would have wanted to break off easier . So I guess they seem more forgiving in the long run ..... Just my observations !

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

If you need to adjust the profile of the sides, say because you didnt do it properly to begin with (DAMHIKT) with RR kerfing, you can remove 50% of the height and still have plenty of depth to route for your binding channels. Also, you do not lose any gluing surface for the top and back. If you tried that with traditional kerfing, you would not have enough glue surface left. Now, I am not saying one should use RR kerfing as insurance against having to reprofile the sides, but its nice to know you can!
On the wedge OM I just finished, I needed to sand the back edge in my radius dish quite a bit after I had installed the linings to get the back to sit nicely. I thought I had a good fit when I installed the linings, but I was wrong. I was very happy I used RR linings when I realized my error.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I don't see any negatives to using the reverse linings. I think they are easier to make,easier to install,and give a much cleanier look when inletting for back braces. Some folks get so trapped in what is traditional by certain manufacturers that they refuse to experiment with any thing that is new. Steal all the good ideas and try them to see if they work for you.
Tom

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I don't think it really matters. I don't like reversed personally because it always looked to me like it was an attempt to look like solid linings when they are not. I prefer solid on my classicals simply because I feel it's more traditional and regular kerfed for my SS guitars. Pure aesthetics, nothing more, and to each their own is all good. As for tone? I'd like to see what anyone has to say of that matter because it seems to me it would be impossible to actually tell a difference in tone with any manor of linings.

I'm really loving the Ryan A-4 linings for my back linings. The look is outstanding, and they are amazingly easy to install. Structurally, I don't think it matters much once the back is on, as Todd stated.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I use solid linings. I like bending wood.

I also like the stiffness they add. A nice rigid frame is nice to work with. With a single lining the thickness of your side (~3mm) you get plenty of surface area for a basic binding channel. If you must, just add another layer. Kerfed linings just look so "factory" to me anyway. Why make a handmade guitar look like you just sort of put pieces together on an assembly line?

+1 for the Ryan kerfing. It is UNREAL easy to install. By far the easiest I've ever dealt with. On the down side it's a bit expensive, and is fragile when routing for brace pockets, but if you go slow with a sharp spiral bit it's not a big deal. I save a ton of time when installing them though. And you almost never have to even give a second thought to gaps because the conform so well.

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

In my limited experience, I've had a bear of a time with the reversed-kerf linings. They always want to make a gap at the waist where the lining doesn't want to sit flush against the sides. Attempts to clamp it harder to force out the gap usually resulted in crushing the linings a bit. Now I use traditional triangular and install it in ~6" segments so I don't have to force it to curve both ways, and that's worked out fairly well. I'd really like to try the Ryan A4 linings, though I'm not sure I like the squarish look. Sure seems like they'd be the easiest to install. John Mayes used the Ryan lining in his new cutaway dvd.

_________________
______________________________
Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I've not heard of the Ryan A-4 Linings. Anyone have a pic or a source?

_________________
Formerly known as Adaboy.......

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com