noob: laminate trimmer or router?

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noob: laminate trimmer or router?

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mqbernardo

Post subject: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:17 am

Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 1295
First name: Miguel
Last Name: Bernardo
Country: portugal
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro

Hi all!

i don´t have any experience with electric tools in luthierie (as the more wise upon you, by virtue of the question above, may by now have noticed

) and hence, in the "there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers" vein, i´m trying to figure out what´s the main difference between a laminate trimmer and a router.
i understand that a LT seems to be smaller and thinner, but that´s it. from what i´ve gathered, i understand both have their place in guitar building, but are they, for instance, mutually exclusive ? as a 1st tool, would i be better with or or the other? or is it "horses for courses"? ok, i´ll stop here, too much questions are... leaving me... breathless....

thanks in advance for your time...

cheers,
Miguel.

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Rod True

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:38 am

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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada

Well, they are all routers first off. A laminate trimmer is just a smaller router than most others, or it's classified as a hand held router, not a two handed router or a router that is mounted in a router table.

The second difference is that a LT is less powerful than a full size router, so you won't be spinning a 2-3" raised panel bit with it. But a full size 3-1/4hp router in a router table would get the nod for a bit like this.

The third difference is that the full size router will be able to take bits with either a 1/4" shaft or a 1/2" shaft (which generally is again used for larger bits). The LT will only take 1/4" shaft bits this is in North America, metric LT's will need metric bits or an adapter collar for the imperial sized bits.

Now, for most things (like 99.9%) in luthiery, you don't need a full size router and a LT will work just fine.

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runamuck

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:45 am

Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:08 pm
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First name: jim
Last Name: mccarthy
City: ojai
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Country: usa
Focus: Build

A laminate trimmer is just a small router and they were originally designed to do
what they are called: trim laminate - usually on countertops. Often they come
with bearings and little fences that you won't need for guitar work.

Regarding guitar making, it's certainly nice to have both, although if I had to recommend one over the
other, I'd say get a laminate trimmer first simply because they are so much easier to handle for someone
starting out.

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Hupaand

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:46 am

Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 pm
Posts: 287
First name: Hugh
Last Name: Anderson
City: Lake Oswego
State: oregon

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Fred Tellier

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:50 am

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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:42 pm
Posts: 2360
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
First name: Fred
Last Name: Tellier
City: Windsor
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: N8T2C6
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur

Horse power and weight, a router is large powerfull and heavy, needed for heavy cutting like neck joints and pattern bits in a router table and will need two hands to hold it while cutting. The Laminate trimmer is much lighter, great for binding, rosettes and light routing and can be manipulated with one hand. The laminate trimmer is probably what I would start with or own if I could only have one, most routing jobs can be done with it. An alternative might be this tool
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2082504/31935/PorterCable-125HP-Compact-Router.aspx
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2082556/33102/DeWalt-Variable-Speed-Compact-Router-with-LEDs-125-HP-Model-DWP611.aspx
these might fill most of our needs in guitar building but not as good as having a full sized router and a Laminate trimmer

Fred

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Alan

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:17 pm

Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:45 am
Posts: 430

If you don't want to buy both to start, I would start with the laminate trimmer. Most of my work is done with a laminate trimmer (binding, routing for rosette, mortise and tennon for the neck).

If you plan to build/buy a router table, get a full size router for it. A router table or shaper is great for template routing.

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Daniel Minard

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:35 pm

Koa

Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:57 pm
Posts: 775
Location: Powell River BC Canada
First name: Daniel
Last Name: Minard
City: Powell River
State: BC
Country: Canada

Since I bought the new Ridgid laminate trimmer, I don't use my bigger routers for neck mortise & tenon joints. I did make a 6" round plexiglass base plate which is needed sometimes when routing out large cavities or when you want a more secure "footing".
If you use a lam trimmer for bigger jobs, go down to your final depth in stages.
If you're hogging off lots of material (ie, making radius dishes) & big router that'll take 1/2" bits
is the right tool, otherwise a good lam trimmer will do most everything you need in luthiery.

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James Orr

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:15 pm

Contributing Member

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:37 am
Posts: 4820

What's the new standard in laminate trimmers now that the PC310's discontinued?

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Bob Shanklin

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:35 pm

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Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:55 am
Posts: 566
First name: Bob
Last Name: Shanklin
City: Windsor
State: ON
Country: Canada

James Orr wrote:

What's the new standard in laminate trimmers now that the PC310's discontinued?

I think the redesigned Ridgid is. Model #2401.

Bob

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Ken Mitchell

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:46 pm

Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:58 pm
Posts: 316

Does anyone know if any of the new routers have the same screw/bolt pattern onthe base? I've got an old 310, with several fixtures, and need a couple of new router. I'd love to find a make/brand that fits the old 310 pattern!

TIA,

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Durham, NC

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Rod True

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:59 pm

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Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada

Ken Mitchell wrote:

The PC 7310 has the same pattern as the 310 from what I understand.

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mqbernardo

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:48 pm

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Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 1295
First name: Miguel
Last Name: Bernardo
Country: portugal
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro

thanks a lot for the replies!! this place rocks! so, i get it now:
router : heavier, two-handed use, both bits sizes;
LT: lighter, one-handed operation, smaller router bits.

but this leaves me a problem, i was thinking on buying this bosh router: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-POF-1200- ... d_cp_diy_1 . but i´m still to find a bosh / rigid laminate trimmer on an european on-line dealer (amazon sells dewalt and makita, IIRC). anyone knows of a good european dealer ?

thanks so much,
Miguel.

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Rod True

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:34 pm

Contributing Member

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada

Makita is a very good brand, don't be afraid to get a Makita [:Y:]

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UkeforJC

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:54 am

Walnut

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 36
Location: San Diego, CA

is it possible to build a simple router table to be used with a laminate trimmer?
or this is not a good idea to do?
Has anyone done that?

Thank you.

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John Mayes

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:04 am

Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:37 am
Posts: 2670
Location: United States
First name: John
Last Name: Mayes
City: Norman
State: OK
Focus: Build
Status: Professional

I have about 5 of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-3707FC-Fix ... 792&sr=8-1

and I have three:

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690L ... 822&sr=1-1

and two:

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-7310 ... 822&sr=1-4

and 4:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS-2-1 ... 864&sr=1-3

and two:

http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-5616-20 ... =1-3-spell

and one really old ryobi laminate trimmer.

They are all very very nice. Except the Ryobi.. it still runs, but the height adjustment is a joke.

I like to get routers set up for one operation and leave them dedicated for that. I use the Makitas in my binding cutter. They are about 6 years old and still going strong after cutting ledges on 100 or so guitars in the past 6 years.

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John Mayes

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:06 am

Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:37 am
Posts: 2670
Location: United States
First name: John
Last Name: Mayes
City: Norman
State: OK
Focus: Build
Status: Professional

UkeforJC wrote:

is it possible to build a simple router table to be used with a laminate trimmer?
or this is not a good idea to do?
Has anyone done that?

Thank you.

You can get this:

http://www.amazon.com/Porter-Cable-690L ... 822&sr=1-1

For the cost, or cheaper, than most laminate trimmers. If you're using a router table I'd suggest using a full size router. I use a Bosch 1617EVS in my router table and it works great.

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Matt Shumway

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:11 am

Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:41 am
Posts: 160

Woodcraft has a special going on now if you buy a Porter Cable router you get a free laminate trimmer.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200577 ... 690LR.aspx

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John Coloccia

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 7:04 am

Koa

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:25 pm
Posts: 733
First name: John
Last Name: coloccia
Country: States
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro

Todd Stock wrote:

The PC 7310 is a very different router from the PC310...I have one that has held up for 10 years of so and three major ipe deck projects, but would not use it for luthiery due to the mount to the base...lots of room for movement. I like my Colts, and the Ridgid 2400's I have seem to be holding up in my saddle mill and rosette jig. One thing - definitely go with at least one router with a round body...much easier to mount in jigs, as all it takes is two rings with a screw closure.

The next 310 might just be the DeWalt 611, based on early reviews. Need to get one in the shop to really get a feel for whether it will do the job. At $145 for the kit from Ace Tool, it seems like a decent deal. At 1.25 hp, it will handle some of the jobs that a 690 will, although you'll need a full sized router to handle the 1/2" shank diameter bits that work well for template routing.

Exactly. Their new laminate trimmer is NOT like the old 310 at all, for all the reasons you mention. Good luck just getting it square. I have a 310, and use it for some things, but it's a frustrating experience.

If I wanted a small router, and only wanted one router, the only one I would even consider at this point is the new Dewalt or Porter Cable compact router with the additional plunge base. That's a very usable combination that will do most tasks. You're stuck with a 1/4" collet, though, but that's OK depending on what you're using it for. It's rare that a manufacturer does this, but Dewalt/PC really knocked it out of the park with this one.

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Howard Klepper

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:09 pm

Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:16 am
Posts: 2692

James Orr wrote:

What's the new standard in laminate trimmers now that the PC310's discontinued?

It's the PC310. Now no one meets the standard.

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http://www.klepperguitars.com

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UkeforJC

Post subject: Re: noob: laminate trimmer or router?

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:48 am

Walnut

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 36
Location: San Diego, CA

Sorry guys, I am very very new to the router world.
I have a newbie question.

What does the "additional plunge base" for Dewalt 611 do?

I understand that this base allow the base to be in contact with the work piece before turning on the router. Then after turning on the router, I can push the router down to start cutting the work piece. So...it is idea for routing the saddle slot on the bridge.
Is this correct?

Besides this function, what else can I use the plunge base for? can I use it on a router table?

sorry again for this silly question.

Thanks

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