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For a scalloped braced steel string, I was wondering how you do your top bracing? Specifically do you tuck both ends of the x-brace into the lining? And what about the lower face braces? Do you tuck them under the x-brace or just taper to 0 at the x-brace?

Also what about the bridge plate? Seems Martin has tucked them under the x-bracing at times. Do you tuck the bridge plate?

I’m trying to take my guitar building to the next level without taking to many false steps. Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I tuck the UTB and front legs of the x-braces into the lining.The lower x's, finger braces, and lower face braces are tapered to zero at the linings. Where the finger braces and lower face braces touch the x, I carve them down to about 3/32"....hope that helps...

Meedling,

It does. Thanks, what about the bridge plate? No tuck?

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Are those glued where they butt up against the X? It always seemed like that would be too fragile to me, if intending to do highly interconnected bracing where those connection points are essential to the top's survival. I always carve down to 0, or tuck. But maybe an end grain butt joint really is strong enough in this case.

At the linings, I tuck the upper transverse brace at about 1/2" tall for maximum strength and rigidity to prevent headblock rotation, tuck the upper legs of the X primarily to prevent their glue joints from popping loose at the ends, and the rest taper to 0.

For tucking into the X, I've never tried tucking a bridge plate, but I have tried both ways for the smaller braces (fingers, tone bars, soundhole reinforcements). Definitely like tucking the soundhole braces, since that area also needs a lot of strength to resist string tension, but I'm still undecided on the rest. I've had good and bad results both ways.

When talking tucked braces , There are no real rules , but if you are following Martin Tradition , the upper transverse brace is tucked into the kerfing as are the main X braces
All back braces are tucked
Now if you are talking pre war Martin style the top braces are still the same for the kerfing but there are a few changes on the braces from the pre war period to now. The neck block was thicker at 1 9/16 pre war and modern 1 3/8 the transverse brace was pre war .325 and .625 high as compared to the modern.
All braces that didn't get tucked into the kerfing are faded down to the top at the point to the kerfing. The braces were notched into the main X braces. The bridge plate was tucked into the main X and was 1 3/8 wide.
The back braces were changed in the 80's are were at pre war time 3/4 inch wide on the lower 2 braces and about 3/8 inch high.
these are all hot glued at the time

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I do not notch the bridge plate or any braces into the x legs. The butt joint where the brace ends meet the x legs is an artifact. It is the height of the brace at that point that gives additional strength to that intersection. That's how I see it anyway...

Actually Notched braces are stronger than butt glued but at what point is that a necessity is up to the builder. . The notched braces is what was done and butt joinery was a modern addition to CF Martin. I agree that it is up to the builder to decide what method they prefer to use. In a sense this may be subjective in nature , but it was how things were done. I feel I can hear a difference in my guitars since I went Hot Hide and tucked braces.
I personally will notch as I am a traditionalist and is it what my customers expect . I have heard great sounding guitars that were not notched . It is just a different technique.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

From a strength perspective, the braces that really need to be tucked are the taller ones above the bridge. Due to the torque on the bridge, the top is being depressed in that area, and the brace ends can pop loose from the top. Below the bridge, the top is being pulled out, which tends to keep the brace ends attached.
I have always tucked the ends of the X-braces, the UTB, and the back braces. But over the last few guitars, I have tucked the bridgeplate and the other braces where they intersect the X-braces. Though I do like the strength perspective of doing the additional tucking, I honestly don't believe it has affected the sound one way or the other.

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John

I tucked all the braces on
build Weiss # 2,
and tucked no braces at all on build Weiss # 3,4,
No difference in tone at all.
So, my default is, tuck the upper x,
the utb,
and let all the others taper down to nothing clear of the linings.
I will tuck the upper x and utb into the linings,
and make them thicker,
as I have some top distortion happening around the sound hole.
They are lap steels, high action, heavy gauge strings, so
take that into consideration!