Official Luthiers Forum!

As you may or may not know I am relatively new to the luthiery craft, #2 is almost complete and #3, #4, and #5 are in progress. I do not profess to know and or understand the online luthier supply business, I can only imagine that it must be difficult given the size of the market. In college I studied supply side economics, macro/micro economics and I must admit they were probably some of my most memorable classes. I have a good grasp on business and technology as I've sold software in the business intelligence space for a number of years prior to my construction endeavors. So I would like to think that I'm not ignorant to the ideas and concepts of business. However, I can not for the life of me understand how an online business can do business without product? Oh I get it nobody wants to have huge inventories of products (AKA $$$) sitting on their shelves but come on! Some of our sponsors have had pages of products with sold signs on them and haven't bothered to update their stock and web site with new inventory. Please don't get me wrong this is not a bashing of our sponsors because this doesn't apply to all of them. I'm just trying to understand what's going on? Is it this abysmal economy that has them without stock (it would seem plausible). If that's the case is it not reminiscent of the old communist Russia where the shelves were more often bare than well stocked. It would seem to me that if that's the case then they should get out of the business, not having product isn't helping their cause. Can somebody please explain how one can do business without product?

BTW - I'm not in any way trying to insight a political discussion (I'm not interested) just an understanding of the luthier supply business.

I've assumed that LMI & StewMac are the only ones who only sell Luthier supplies - as opposed to someone who deals in wood or does luthier supplies as a side business or hobby.

I've spoken with some suppliers (not OLF sponsors) who make the majority of their income form guitar factories & and don't spend much time in trying to sell to the little guys like us.

Kevin Looker

edit
Oops, I forgot Allied, but they do have inventory.

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Well , even though I sell some luthiery based items , bandsaw blades etc: Even in my business with welding and Manufacturing it has gone from taking 2-3 days to get somthing to 3-5 days because even the Manufacturers are cutting back on stock . SO , if the Manufacturer doesnt have it and has to make it to sell to me so that I can sell it to the end user .... well you can see how the issue gets stretched out . Yes its Mainly the economy thats the deciding factor that determines what I stock .

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Mark, I haven't built a lot of guitars either, but after a multi-year WAS binge--buying a little bit from a lot of dealers--I understand exactly what you are seeing. You could also have asked, "How can someone do business without responding to requests for products?" and similar questions.

The explanation of these apparent anomalies is pretty straightforward. Some luthier supply businesses are conventional full-time businesses that maintain an inventory, update their websites, respond to inquiries, and fulfill orders. But there are a lot of others that are sideline operations for people who are retired or make their primary living another way. When those dealers are preoccupied with other activities they reduce or suspend their retail operations.

There are all kinds of variations in this. For whatever reasons, some people don't update their websites much but are maintaining an inventory, so you just need to call or e-mail with your needs. Others seem to assemble a batch of inventory, sell it, suspend sales while they assemble another batch, and then resume selling. Still others seem to have grand plans for a business but in reality don't have the time or will to operate it.

I have also observed that some seem to prefer to deal with their regular customers and new customers are likely to fall between the cracks.This last I identify with--in my consulting practice (which has nothing to do with guitars) it's a PITA to deal with potential new clients because they don't understand how things work, and the time invested in educating them is seldom worth it. Most of my "marketing" is directed at developing new projects with proven clients. So I can understand why a small dealer might devote little effort to promotion and spend most time working with customers he already has a good working relationship with.

The advantages of buying from the smaller dealers is that, when you can get something from them, it's often different from what you can get from the bigger companies and/or at a lesser price. When you can do it, developing a relationship with a smaller dealer through low-pressure discussions of what may be available, etc., is a good investment. On the other hand, the better a relationship you have with them, the more wood you can buy, so be careful. (Hello, my name is Tim, and I have Wood Acquisition Syndrome.)

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

Very good question Mark. We've started to step up our supplies again here and that was the first thing we did, build up stock. Some of it does sit for a while and depending on where you're at financially, you have to make that call of whether there's enough demand to resupply when you get through it. In our eyes, we can't afford to NOT keep stock in case an order comes in, you may lose a customer for good that way. Sometimes looking at the woodpile can be frustrating if it's not disappearing as fast as you like. I don't know if that's the case for other suppliers, just another angle on the discussion.

Since we're talking supplies we have one that keeps coming up around the shop. How do you develop new customers if you have the product?

Advertising...

Who are you, fellow Canadian, and what do you sell? Always looking for Canadian suppliers....

PM me

(Med - meet David from Timeless Instruments in Saskatchewan....I much enjoyed the Sitka tops I bought over the years and his was the only place on earth I could find a black Walnut neck blank (in 2005) for my first guitar.....I figure it's ok to say cause he's a sponsor.....)

But back to the question....I must be shopping in different places, I haven't noticed a decline in inventory, but I've been trying to buy less and use what I have in the last few years.

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Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

Blame Lacey for dwindling supplies and higher costs in the U.S.
Hang on to what you have, and get what you can while you can, because it's all going to come racing to a point of near halt. Not entirely, but close. Unless an American company is behind making $$ on imported woods like flooring.

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I can't speak for the US suppliers, but for us here in Western Canada, the single biggest factor that determines what we stock is, "What can we get?" and second to that, "What can we sell and what are we going to have to sit on for a while?"

For example, it has been hard to get really good softwood for tops for a long time. There are a number of reasons, and I won't go into them all here, but one of them is that there are far fewer trees being cut down than there were a few years ago. Log sorts don't want to be bothered by "small guys" like us, who maybe only want a half dozen or a dozen logs. They want volume purchases, so we don't get the chance to go look at the logs they do have.

That may sound like a complaint, and it is not meant to be- that's just the way things are. On the upside, as we look for more suppliers, and get our name out even in our own community, we find that we get a lot of calls from people looking to get rid of trees, or tree service people who know that we will pay money for something most people would dump.

For parts and things that we do not process ourself, its more a matter of building up stock slowly, and making sure we don't bring in too many things that we don't know will sell within a reasonable amount of time.

Lincoln

Filippo is absolutely correct. If you can effectively leverage the web and Internet, the potential is staggering. Look at online dating today vs traditional dating just 10 years ago.. sheesh!

Dunno if that's a good comparison...

From what I've experienced, there is much less misrepresentation from our vendors...

I was selling wood for awhile a few years back, but my suppliers stopped inventorying the woods I was looking for. Part of the reason was due to the recession. They didn't want to risk sitting on expensive wood for an extended period of time if it didn't sell. Two of the places went out of business.

Keeping up the website was no easy task either. I usually kept pictures of every B&S set that I had on the website. It's a LOT of work. I had to take a good picture, re-size it, and re-size it again for a thumbnail image, and then add both to the page in my web software including labels and links, and upload it to the actual website. Each large image had its own page with a link back to the thumbnails page. There are much better templates out there now, but mine was built by me with no help from the outside.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

One other thing. Never assume, because there is no picture of the wood, that they are out. Always call. A high percentage of the wood never makes the website.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Thank you all for the input. I'm not sure I fully understand why anyone today would run an eCommerce web site like brochure ware (that's so 1980's). I think Filippo is probably correct with the yellow pages comment however, that's not how an online business is run. To many people approach the internet and wonder why they aren't successful...IT'S A BUSINESS RUN IT LIKE ONE! Sponsor's - would you have a traditional shop on the street and have your shelves empty with no product? I don't think so.

Again thank you all for your input. I too like some of you don't have time to waist on in-efficient/under stocked web sites. So I will only be spending my time/money on sponsors that spend the necessary time it takes to properly run their business. Okay I'm done with my rant.

Maybe it's because some folks are a bit less "tech-savvy" than others. Keeping a website updated can be a time consuming exercise that might be better spent re-sawing beautiful wood so it is available to those who call. A few sets make the website as teasers and, yes for sale, but not the bulk of the cut wood. Those interested in premium sets will call if they are really looking for something good. Then you can find out if they have it and if and when it will be available.

One of the best sources of Cocobolo in the country doesn't even have a website.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy thank you for your input. Conceptually I struggle a bit with your logic, in no way would I ever go into a business of any kind without the proper tools and/or personnel, to manage the parts that I can't manage like perhaps being "tech-savvy". Running a business is time consuming and there are aspects of it that aren't always enjoyable. Fortunately today there are many ways to set up e-commerce sites without having to be "tech savvy". I went into the construction business without any knowledge of the construction industry (just an understanding of business) but I surrounded myself with people who knew what they were doing. Don't go into business unless you understand or have some concept of understanding business.

I love this craft and unfortunately I can only do it casually in my spare time because I work full time. Since I have limited time I don't have the discretionary time to make multiple phone calls, leave messages, hope to get a call back, and try to track down product. I respect that "old school" approach I just wish I had time for it. The beauty of the internet, when done properly, is that you can find products and buy them without having to make phone calls and/or site visits. It's an incredibly efficient way of buying and selling products....embrace it or get left behind.

On a related topic for you tech savvy luthiers. My web host went AWOL awhile back and I need to rebuild. Any suggestions about which web site creation software would be a good choice for a one person shop?

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After reading this thread 3 times and trying to respond to it politely I think you should just start a lutherie supply company and show us what's missing!

Let me know how that works out for you..

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