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Is it better to file the first fret a little lower than the others to keep the neck as straight as possible without first fret buzzing? Wouldn't this allow for lower action on the middle and upper frets?

No. Frets need to start off absolutely level. Having a fret lower than the rest will almost guarantee a buzz on that fret, not to mention at the first fret it will really make nut slot heights a mess and affect intonation. Relief is added to counter string vibration, different players need different amounts.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Thanks foryour response, but that doesn't make sense to me. Why would a slightly lower first fret cause buzzing on that same fret? How does it affect intonation? I already did it on a guitar and everything seems great. It sounds great, and the playability is fantastic.

also, in one of the Dan Erlewine books, they luthiers saying they set relief at .002. That's pretty much straight.

it is about the fret clearance for the string to the next fret. The geometry of the neck is complicated and it adjusting relief is not done by filing a fret , it had to do with curvature of the neck. You adjust that with the truss rod or compression fretting. filing the 1st fret will increase the risk of buzzing.
Proper fretting starts with the prep. If the fret board is not true and precise it makes it more difficult to get the fret plane perfect.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I had a neck with probably less than .005 relief. There was slight buzzing at the first fret on high E and B strings. I had the action at the 12th right where I wanted it. 4/64ths and 6/64's. Filing the first fret a little where the E and B strings cross that fret stopped the buzzing. Other soultions would have been to add relief or make a new nut with slighly higher slots on those strings. Adding relief or a new nut would have raised the action at the rest of the frets, what I did fixed the problem and kept the action where I wanted it. The only drawback I see is maybe that fret would need replaced before the others, but that's not a fret that gets damaged on those strings usually. It certainly didn't add buzzing, andif anything it made intonation better by reducing the amount of added tension on those strings when fretted at that fret.

The appropriate solution would have been to shim the nut (or make a new one)
Filing the first fret to correct an open string buzz is a really bad idea

Why? What problem does it create?

It reduces the string clearance over the second fret

It's not buzzing at the second fret or anywhere. Like I said, it sounds and plays fantastic.

Why bother asking when you have your mind made up?
There are a lot of experienced people on this forum, you could learn from them instead of doggedly promoting your own ideas.

Because when someone's telling me something doesn't work and I'm sitting here playing the guitar and it sounds fantastic, I question if they know what they're talking about that's why. It doesn't mean you guys aren't intelligent, experienced and outstanding luthiers, but it does mean my question hasn't been answered to my satisfaction. I didn't have my mind made up, but when you tell me something doesn't work and I know it does then why would I just concede? Is it not a discussion forum? Promoting my ideas? Are you kidding me?

a lot of physicists who were experienced, credentialed, accomplished, and among the most respected in their profession thought the Higgs boson didn't exist, and were apparently wrong. I'm guessing someone at some point asked them why that particle couldn't exist. If they can ask that i can ask about filing a @$&$?!! fret..

If your neck were perfectly straight, and the action were as low as possible, having the first fret lower than the second fret would in fact cause the string touch or nearly touch the second fret when fretted at the first.

Same thing would happen if the second fret were a little higher than the first without lowering the first fret.

I too can set a guitar up to play and sound good in that condition, but that doesn't mean it's optimal.

A pickier player with very tight action tolerances would run into trouble, if this were the case.

However, since it sounds like the particular problem you had cleared up when you filed the first fret, it SOUNDS like the nut slot was a little low, and you have enough relief to clear the second fret, so filing the first fret didn't hurt you in this case.

I think this means that you are simply not as picky as the tightly toleranced player would be in this situation.

Having set up thousands of guitars for players across the setup spectrum from super low and tight where everything has to be spot on perfect to super high blues slammers, my advice would be to learn to do things correctly before trying to come up with a super slick "trick setup", if you are planning on setting instruments up for other people besides yourself, so that when situations like this arise on other peoples instruments, you will be mentally equipped to deal with the situation appropriately in all cases.

Sometimes what you did to just the one fret will work for someone, other times the frets may need to all be levelled and dressed and the nut adjusted perfectly after that to make them happy.

Hope this helps.....

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I agree with the other comments. If you took down the 1st fret and you do not get buzzing on the 2nd when fretting the first, IMHO your first fret started out too high.

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EddieLee

yeah, that makes sense. thanks:). so, the only thing i can think of is that i somehow measured the relief incorrectly, but i don't see how. I'm certain it's less than .010. It's hard to tell at such a small measurement, but it looks about .005 to me. And the neck was straightened with a notched straight edge before set-up and hasn't been adjusted. But, I agree with what you say and it makes sense.. But, if my meaurements are correct, and I have less than .010 relief and 4/64 - 6/64ths at the 12th, is it possible that there's another answer?

A couple of things come to mind.

The notched straightedges aren't SUPER accurate, although they are really great tools that I use daily.

So I use them to get the neck as averagely straight as I can before fret dressing, but I measure neck relief after the guitar has been strung up registered to the fret plane, by capoing the first and last frets and measuring the relief at the seventh fret, which is the halfway point of the actual fretboard. If you're measuring relief at the 12th fret, the relief at the seventh fret will be greater.

First though, I set the nut height as low as it will go with the neck set straight after stringing, as I check the action at the 12th fret, the halfway point, and if the nut is high, the saddle height will end up artificially low for a particular target height, since a height increase at the nut has the same effect as a height increase at the saddle when measured at that point. So the nut has to be adjusted first, with a straight neck, before setting the relief.

After the relief is set a the 7th fret (the halfway point of the fretboard), I adjust the saddle height measuring the string height from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string at the 12th fret (the halfway point of the scale length).

With a relief of .01, I can adjust the string height to slightly below 3/64ths at the high E to right at 4/64ths on the low E with no buzzing with proper technique, although some guys like the low E at 3/64ths as well, although I find the string will always buzz at that height, but will still produce a clear pitch.

This is after the frets have been dressed, and represents my pickiest players.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Yes, as was said, a nut slot cut too deep. Or maybe the first fret was high to begin with.

You're checking the neck with a notched straight edge? At this point what counts is the top of the frets, not the fretboard surface. Have you checked that the frets are level? Did you check the relief with the notched straight edge too or the tops of the frets?

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

One more thing, all measurements when setting up must be made in playing position, otherwise you will have false relief readings, IE you will have more relief than you measure when you lift the guitar into playing position. This is because gravity pulls the headstock down, and straightens the neck, even in the cradle.

Fat people that play the guitar on it's back when sitting on the couch (like me) often will get buzzing in that position that goes away when they stand up and strap on the guitar.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

+1
If your frets are properly leveled from the get go, and you're getting first fret buzz, the nut slots are cut too deep. Period. Lowering the first fret is just shifting the problem up one fret. Having done some seriously fussy setup on some really high-end guitars, I can confidently say that if you selectively lower one fret on a flat, low-relief neck, it's going to cause a problem upstream. It's inevitable. Sounds like you've got more than .005" relief. And yes, these guys know what they're talking about...

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

Yes.
A low fret has one consequence....buzzing is more likely when fretting the string on the low fret.
If the first fret was higher than the other frets (likely), and the buzzing is not worse when fretting on that fret, then you have lowered it to the plane of the other frets. I use a 6" stainless steel ruler to check this.
The reason the first fret is often higher than the others is because the torque on the neck from the strings going across the nut tends to bend the neck up slightly in that area.
The correct amount of relief will vary, primarily with the action. It can easily be determined by checking where on the neck that buzzing is most prominent. Buzzing on frets 7-12 means that there is too much relief. Buzzing on frets 1-4 means that there is too little relief, or there is back bow.
The nut height should be the same as the frets.

Couldn't have said it better.

I once had a customer who insisted that I lower the nut until the strings were touching the first fret, then cut the first fret down. However, when I explained why the nut should be the same height as the frets, he still insisted. I concluded that the above scenario (where the first fret was already high) worked one time for him, and he was convinced that it was the correct approach.
It is not.
The frets are leveled under tension, then the nut is lowered to match the fret plane. Doing it backwards is asking for trouble.

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John

I will just add this, filing down the first fret lower than the others will actually force you to have higher action than would otherwise be needed to obtain clearance for the string when fretted at the first. That is a geometric fact. So while it may play......it could play better. It also affects intonation, an A minor or a C chord will sound a bit sour because the one note in the chord fretted at the first will pull sharper than the other notes. There's a lot to a really good set up.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

no, I'm measuring the relief same as you, at the 7th. I just checked again, and I'm certain that the relief is .004

the notched straightedge was used to straighten the neck before set-up, I'm checking it the same way everyone else checks it after it's strung up.

that's a good point, but I don't think the difference would be any more noticable than a tension difference of .002 - .003 in string guage. I don't know for certain of course.